steelnut Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 5 hours ago, TucsonSunset said: Its quite believable, sadly. It's just so wrong. Total disregard for employee's lives. LFG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petee Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Is it anywhere normal for a landfill to shift like this? Are the people running it properly, or is this something that the industry needs to regulate better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFG Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 10 hours ago, Petee said: Is it anywhere normal for a landfill to shift like this? Are the people running it properly, or is this something that the industry needs to regulate better? I just saw this, been gone for a few days. My first question would be where is the movement? If it is in the same area that slid before, that's not good, but not unexpected to me. If it is in an adjacent area that hasn't fallen, or at the active working face, then alarm bells should be going off. Something underneath all of that weight isn't right, and it covers a much larger area than the original collapse indicated. To answer your questions, I will say that it is not unheard of for landfills to shift, but those landfills were not built correctly. There are almost 2000 Class 3 landfills in the US, and only a handful have slid. Of the ones that I am aware of, the causes can be traced back to what I originally said in February. Yes, it's time for more strict regulations on what we put in our landfills, and how those materials are handled by the individual landfills. Hopefully another person won't have to die to make the industry pay attention to what is happening up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFG Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I sat through a very lengthy conference call this morning. The hammer is being dropped from on high about the volumes of wet waste accepted. There is a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth because the reduction in revenue will cost a lot of people a significant portion of their bonus. It will cost me personally several thousand dollars if the revenue isn't made up with something else. Good A certain incident north of me was specifically referenced. The good news is certain companies are paying attention and reacting. The bad news is that it isn't a federal law, it's a voluntary business practice. When we turn it away, it will have to go somewhere... mr.d, TucsonSunset, steelnut and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petee Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 So much for leadership! If they are the upper eschelon and they cannot lead and make decisions, then hire someone who can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katie77 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 http://wjactv.com/news/local/dep-fines-advanced-disposal-600k-for-violations-that-led-to-workers-landfill-death LFG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFG Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, katie77 said: http://wjactv.com/news/local/dep-fines-advanced-disposal-600k-for-violations-that-led-to-workers-landfill-death Thanks Katie, I hadn't heard. Better, but probably less than a month's worth of trash. Wait until the lawyers get involved... 2 interesting things to me in that article: 1. required to submit a written “Root Cause” Report. What will this report say, and will it be made public? Who determines the actual cause, and if witnesses dispute the findings, what then? 2. Limit municipal sewage sludge and approved non-hazardous waste with flowable characteristics to 15% of the monthly scaled tonnage, with a maximum of 20% of the total scaled tonnage on any one day Finally. I have been screaming this for years, but why only Greentree? This should be a national standard, especially the "on any one day" note. Even with a company policy of 20%, that is calculated monthly, so that number can be as high as 40+ on any one day as long as it averages out by the end of the month. If this story goes quietly away, it won't be the last. steelnut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFG Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 I was provided a copy of that report. Due to past accusations, I'm not going to break it down here, but there are many, many things in that report that the lawyers will have a field day with. To the locals, I would be asking questions about contamination... steelnut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petee Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Contamination? Wasn't there a slight possibility that this thing has been leaking for a long time and has become unstable? I see they are required to hire a watchdog to be sure they follow the requirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelnut Posted December 2, 2017 Author Share Posted December 2, 2017 I want more investigations. They are a huge corporation, 600,000 probably doesn't mean as much to them as the bad publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccermom Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 On 12/1/2017 at 8:22 PM, Petee said: Contamination? Wasn't there a slight possibility that this thing has been leaking for a long time and has become unstable? I see they are required to hire a watchdog to be sure they follow the requirements? DEP Newsroom Print COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA Dept. of Environmental Protection Commonwealth News Bureau Room 308, Main Capitol Building Harrisburg PA., 17120 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 12/1/2017 CONTACT: Melanie Williams, DEP 814-332-6615 DEP Issues $600,000 Penalty to Advanced Disposal Services Greentree Landfill, LLC for Waste Slope Failure and Other Violations Meadville, PA – The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) announced that Advanced Disposal Services Greentree Landfill, LLC (Advanced Disposal) has agreed to a $600,000 civil penalty in a Consent Order and Agreement addressing a waste slope failure that resulted in the death of its employee at the Greentree Landfill in Kersey, Elk County. On February 8, 2017, a slope failure occurred at the Greentree Landfill causing an estimated 15.5 acres of solid waste to shift and an estimated five acres of solid waste to slide off the lined disposal area. A landfill employee was trapped in the slide and died. In addition to paying $600,000 for violations of the Solid Waste Management Act occurring before and after the slide, Advanced Disposal is required to submit a written “Root Cause” Report to the DEP on or before December 31, 2017, detailing Advanced Disposal’s investigation and conclusion regarding the cause of the slope failure. Advanced Disposal has also agreed to operational changes that will improve safety, including: • Limit municipal sewage sludge and approved non-hazardous waste with flowable characteristics to 10% of the monthly scaled tonnage with a maximum of 15% of the total scaled tonnage on any one day until the slide has been remediated • Limit municipal sewage sludge and approved non-hazardous waste with flowable characteristics to 15% of the monthly scaled tonnage with a maximum of 20% of the total scaled tonnage on any one day for three years after the slide has been remediated • Remove and dispose of all the waste outside the lined area of the landfill by March 31, 2018, according to a plan approved by the Department • Improve its Odor Control Plan • Employ an individual or individuals to serve as the primary engineering and environmental compliance contact for the landfill The Agreement provides additional stipulated penalties if Advanced Disposal fails to comply with its obligations in a timely manner. http://www.ahs.dep.pa.gov/NewsRoomPublic/articleviewer.aspx?id=21350&typeid=1 LFG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFG Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 22 hours ago, soccermom said: Other Violations estimated five acres of solid waste to slide off the lined disposal area • Remove and dispose of all the waste outside the lined area of the landfill by March 31, 2018, I think Steve will forgive me for this one quote. That is the public statement link, but the report itself goes into much, much more detail. I don't know if it is publicly available, I can't find it, so I'm not going to post it, but someone who knows how to scour the internet may be able to find it As far as my remark about contamination, that is why I edited your post like I did. Not before, but after... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retired outlaw Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 common sense tells me that more than someone should be charged & held accountable in the death of there employee LFG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petee Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Yes, who made the decision to let the men on that slope that day when they already knew it was shifting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFG Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Petee said: Yes, who made the decision to let the men on that slope that day when they already knew it was shifting? At my site that would be my decision and mine alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petee Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Then whoever was on duty that day needs dealt with. There was even a warning posted on here before it happened. Someone knew and didn't care. LFG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFG Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I'm still sad that this story just disappeared, but I hope that with the DEP investigation results released at least maybe the families involved can push a little further. I'm posting today because it's been almost a year, and I'm reminded how I came to this forum in the first place. Bonuses came out today, and 60% of the bonus is dependent on making operating income budget. We didn't make budget. We reduced one specific waste stream by 20% last year because of it's hazardous nature, and the lost revenue in that one waste stream caused us to miss budget by over $1 million. I'm the lowest bonus eligible person on this particular totem pole, the only one that actually sees or cares what this waste stream does to a landfill, and it cost me personally $9000 this year. That's real money out of my pocket, not some corporate percentage of loss. I know the next 3 guys above me up the line, and they lost $17K, $29K, and $42K of their bonuses because of the lost revenue from this one waste stream. Staying in compliance, no safety violations, no EPA infractions, all of that combines for 40% of the bonus, 60% is making the op income budget. There are many more people further up the line that also lost, and you can bet much more money, and none of them understand why this waste stream was eliminated. To them trash is trash. Salespeople go out and pick up accounts for our trucks to haul, it all goes to the landfill, what's the difference? It all brings in money, we all benefit, right? I was the only one on the conference calls leading up to the decision to reduce this waste stream that was agreeing with the third party engineers that we needed to cut back. People were getting mad at me. This is the first year that I was in a bonus bracket this large, so it is the first time that I have seen that many zeroes erased from a check, but I understand why it was worth it. No one else does, and unless you spend time in one of these landfills and see what this s**t is actually doing to us, there is no way you could understand. That's why I pushed this story so hard, that's why I made so much noise about a little mountain town a thousand miles away that I didn't even know how to pronounce. There were no nefarious motives, there was an opportunity to shine a spotlight on an aspect of an industry that affects people all over the country. To the friends and family of Billy, the guys at my landfill continue to remember you in their thoughts and prayers, and to the guys still working... Be safe hipower, BigT, sapphire and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Very well said LFG, great explanation of how the bonus system works in your location. hipower and LFG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFG Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, BigT said: Very well said LFG, great explanation of how the bonus system works in your location. It's all about the money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buschpounder Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Is there special landfills for hazardous material to go to? Would these special landfills charge more to take the hazardous material? So these companies try to find unscrupulous "normal" landfills that charge a lower rate and these "normal" landfills then hide the hazardous material at the risk of employees and the environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFG Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, buschpounder said: Is there special landfills for hazardous material to go to? Would these special landfills charge more to take the hazardous material? So these companies try to find unscrupulous "normal" landfills that charge a lower rate and these "normal" landfills then hide the hazardous material at the risk of employees and the environment? Well, sludge isn't hazardous in the same way that electronics, medical wastes, and things like that are. It's classified as a "special waste", which in simple terms just means it's difficult to handle. It's not the chemical composition of it, it's the consistency. Honestly, Class 3 landfills are the best place for it, but it's the volumes some accept that make it dangerous. There are no regulations on how much you can take, and once your total waste is more than 20% sludge, it starts becoming unstable. It's like mixing concrete in a wheelbarrow. You keep adding water to get the consistency right, but add too much and it breaks. Unscrupulous companies aren't hiding a hazardous material in normal landfills, but my earlier post today outlined the personal gain to be had by taking more than reasonable amounts. I would love to tell my wife there was $9000 more in the bank today.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelnut Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, LFG said: I'm still sad that this story just disappeared, but I hope that with the DEP investigation results released at least maybe the families involved can push a little further. I'm posting today because it's been almost a year, and I'm reminded how I came to this forum in the first place. Bonuses came out today, and 60% of the bonus is dependent on making operating income budget. We didn't make budget. We reduced one specific waste stream by 20% last year because of it's hazardous nature, and the lost revenue in that one waste stream caused us to miss budget by over $1 million. I'm the lowest bonus eligible person on this particular totem pole, the only one that actually sees or cares what this waste stream does to a landfill, and it cost me personally $9000 this year. That's real money out of my pocket, not some corporate percentage of loss. I know the next 3 guys above me up the line, and they lost $17K, $29K, and $42K of their bonuses because of the lost revenue from this one waste stream. Staying in compliance, no safety violations, no EPA infractions, all of that combines for 40% of the bonus, 60% is making the op income budget. There are many more people further up the line that also lost, and you can bet much more money, and none of them understand why this waste stream was eliminated. To them trash is trash. Salespeople go out and pick up accounts for our trucks to haul, it all goes to the landfill, what's the difference? It all brings in money, we all benefit, right? I was the only one on the conference calls leading up to the decision to reduce this waste stream that was agreeing with the third party engineers that we needed to cut back. People were getting mad at me. This is the first year that I was in a bonus bracket this large, so it is the first time that I have seen that many zeroes erased from a check, but I understand why it was worth it. No one else does, and unless you spend time in one of these landfills and see what this s**t is actually doing to us, there is no way you could understand. That's why I pushed this story so hard, that's why I made so much noise about a little mountain town a thousand miles away that I didn't even know how to pronounce. There were no nefarious motives, there was an opportunity to shine a spotlight on an aspect of an industry that affects people all over the country. To the friends and family of Billy, the guys at my landfill continue to remember you in their thoughts and prayers, and to the guys still working... Be safe Thank you for posting this. LFG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelnut Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, LFG said: It's all about the money... It sure is. Many of us in our area have contacted local legislators to no avail. Not a peep from anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petee Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 hours ago, LFG said: It's all about the money... But you are about your heart and soul. That's what moves mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fedup Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/19/2018 at 6:21 PM, steelnut said: It sure is. Many of us in our area have contacted local legislators to no avail. Not a peep from anyone... You can't be surprised, can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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