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2 hours ago, michael880 said:

New York City stopped collecting for over a month one time

Yes, but that was garbage collection. 

I have no idea how it would work with a landfill, but landfillguy says they would bring in other operators. I have no reason to doubt that.

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9 hours ago, soccermom said:

Yes, but that was garbage collection. 

I have no idea how it would work with a landfill, but landfillguy says they would bring in other operators. I have no reason to doubt that.

Theoretically a landfill can close for a short time due to an emergency. Maybe a few weeks, but all of the garbage would have to be rerouted to other landfills at an enormously higher cost. In the case of a strike there is a contingency plan that could be put into action very quickly. You can't just walk off of a landfill and leave garbage exposed, even if no new garbage is coming in. It would have to be, at a minimum, covered

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13 hours ago, landfillguy said:

Also, the federal government gives workers protection from retribution, retaliation, discrimination, etc..., and by law those rules have to be posted in a highly visible place available to all employees. You ever walk into a business and see a bulletin board up with a lot of legal looking posters and printouts on it? Look on the wall behind the drive through window at a fast food restaurant. Stop and read a few of them sometime, that's what that is. Those rules have numbers to call with complaints. There are options

 

12 hours ago, steelnut said:

After listening to the cell phone calls between a couple of employees that WJAC aired, I think that they were very afraid. And one worker spoke to Kody from WJAC under anonymity because he was afraid of losing his job. I have to agree with Micheal, if unionized, the employees wouldn't have to be afraid of exposing what was going on. They all saw the danger and that it was building. Most of these guys live paycheck to paycheck, they don't get good wages from AD and they have families to support. We've talked to four of them, they were all afraid. And they're still afraid of speaking out because they need their jobs, it's just a really sad situation. I was so hoping that something would be done, but a 12000 fine just doesn't cut it. For a life lost and they're just really lucky that many more lives weren't lost that day. 

I understand and appreciate the concerns of the employees when they say they fear for their jobs and their livelihood.  What LFG posted above should address those concerns just as much as a union does or can.  Unfortunately the protection offered within those rules does not react as quickly as would a union presence on a job.  It takes at least two sides to make improvements and the old adage frequently comes to mind, It's not what you say it's how you say it.  Good working relationships are built over time and require solid communications from all involved.  I've never seen a business succeed, long term where management didn't listen to worker concerns.  That doesn't mean that the worker is always right, but management must allow workers a voice and at least respond where it is within reason.

People's concern that the fine issued wasn't enough is valid on the surface and can't be discounted in the larger picture.  What many seem to be overlooking is the significant possibility of much larger settlements still on the table for the family of Mr. Pierce.  We may or may not know what those are based on the terms of any settlement.  Using a little experience as a guide I believe the settlement will be quite significant and paid by an insurer if the company has one or from the corporate treasury if they are self insured.

My hope is like LFG's, that this will result in improvements in landfill operations across the country, not just a bump in the road for the industry to move past and continue to do what has become somewhat of a standard practice.

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21 minutes ago, hipower said:

 

 

People's concern that the fine issued wasn't enough is valid on the surface and can't be discounted in the larger picture.  What many seem to be overlooking is the significant possibility of much larger settlements still on the table for the family of Mr. Pierce.  We may or may not know what those are based on the terms of any settlement.  Using a little experience as a guide I believe the settlement will be quite significant and paid by an insurer if the company has one or from the corporate treasury if they are self insured.

 

This is exactly what is going to happen, I just worry that it will be done quietly. OSHA fined the max allowable, but the conclusions drawn in that report leave the door wide open for lawyers

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17 hours ago, michael880 said:

New York City stopped collecting for over a month one time

Soccermom is right, collections and the landfill are two separate entities. One affects the other, but they are not dependent on each other. We do just as much commercial business as we do residential.

Google "National Labor Relations Act" and look under "Employee Rights". Much of that section is dedicated to give workers the right to form a union, but non-union employees also have rights:

Activity Outside a Union

Employees who are not represented by a union also have rights under the NLRA.  Specifically, the National Labor Relations Board protects the rights of employees to engage in “concerted activity”,  which is when two or more employees take action for their mutual aid or protection regarding terms and conditions of employment.  A single employee may also engage in protected concerted activity if he or she is acting on the authority of other employees, bringing group complaints to the employer’s attention, trying to induce group action, or seeking to prepare for group action.

A few examples of protected concerted activities are:

  • Two or more employees addressing their employer about improving their pay.
  • Two or more employees discussing work-related issues beyond pay, such as safety concerns, with each other.
  • An employee speaking to an employer on behalf of one or more co-workers about improving workplace conditions.

More information, including descriptions of actual concerted activity cases, is available on the protected concerted activity page.

 

What that means is that if an employee approaches the employer with safety concerns on behalf of themselves and at least one more person, then retaliation, demotion, reduction of hours, firing, schedule change, etc... are all illegal. If an employee raised a legitimate concern and was fired, that employee could sue

 

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10 hours ago, landfillguy said:

Theoretically a landfill can close for a short time due to an emergency. Maybe a few weeks, but all of the garbage would have to be rerouted to other landfills at an enormously higher cost. In the case of a strike there is a contingency plan that could be put into action very quickly. You can't just walk off of a landfill and leave garbage exposed, even if no new garbage is coming in. It would have to be, at a minimum, covered

That would be better than to have another person die such a horrible death.


"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who watch them without doing anything"

Albert Einstein

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1 hour ago, Petee said:

That would be better than to have another person die such a horrible death.

I agree, this particular instance should have been addressed months before that ever happened. I was just pointing out that a strike wouldn't shut things down

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15 hours ago, Petee said:

Too bad.  Something has to happen to protect them.

That's exactly why I don't want this story to just disappear. It could well be that a union is what those guys need moving forward, but it doesn't help Mr. Pierce, and it doesn't help expose the cause of the collapse in the first place

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19 hours ago, bearfoot said:

Sounds good on paper but does not exist in the real world.

Have you actually used these laws or are you just expressing your opinion?  I have been on both sides of labor-management issues and negotiations and seen these laws used more than once.  The results always favor the employee when the employee is acted against without additional proof of misconduct or some other allowable firing offense.  In those cases where the company prevails they have proven other causes that would have resulted in firing under a union shop also.  The only time these laws don't work for otherwise good employees is when they don't use them for their benefit.

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what needs to happen is the media needs to blow this up because it was not an accident as ive said before we knew this was going to happen but management blew it off. our DEP inspector is a real piece of work too she would just ride with our regional manager and he would just stop for a couple of minutes at working face with her,  she had to be a total idiot seeing those huge piles of sludge that were there, did she actually think that would get mixed in? Our engineer well ADS doesnt have site engineers so he is the whatever actually said to some people those guys up on the hill are babies its not going anywhere. well low and behold Andy. anyway anyone want to know any details just message me on here.

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7 minutes ago, shameless978 said:

what needs to happen is the media needs to blow this up because it was not an accident as ive said before we knew this was going to happen but management blew it off. our DEP inspector is a real piece of work too she would just ride with our regional manager and he would just stop for a couple of minutes at working face with her,  she had to be a total idiot seeing those huge piles of sludge that were there, did she actually think that would get mixed in? Our engineer well ADS doesnt have site engineers so he is the whatever actually said to some people those guys up on the hill are babies its not going anywhere. well low and behold Andy. anyway anyone want to know any details just message me on here.

Want to talk to a reporter?


"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who watch them without doing anything"

Albert Einstein

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On 8/28/2017 at 7:37 PM, Petee said:

Those who work there are pretty well paid, and finding another job like it would be a problem around here.  

not hourly we aren't we work a lot of overtime we are working 12+ hrs/day and not to clean up managements mess we will be working 12+ on our every other sat so dont say we are well paid because hourly its pathetic and we only get the cola for raises got nice raise couple years ago like 6% but took away our bonus that just made up for our shi%%y raises we have no incentive program at all.

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5 minutes ago, shameless978 said:

not hourly we aren't we work a lot of overtime we are working 12+ hrs/day and not to clean up managements mess we will be working 12+ on our every other sat so dont say we are well paid because hourly its pathetic and we only get the cola for raises got nice raise couple years ago like 6% but took away our bonus that just made up for our shi%%y raises we have no incentive program at all.

Over the years, I've talked to employees, I know that you aren't paid "well". And with the danger involved, I feel for all of you. Pro or anti union, you folks need one. Then you would not be threatened with loss of your job for coming forward about the danger involved. I don't want this story to fade away, I hope that WJAC keeps on it. And I want to say thank you for your honesty and for what you do in the environment that you have to work in. 


 

"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler."

 

-- Jack Lambert --

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11 hours ago, shameless978 said:

what needs to happen is the media needs to blow this up because it was not an accident as ive said before we knew this was going to happen but management blew it off. our DEP inspector is a real piece of work too she would just ride with our regional manager and he would just stop for a couple of minutes at working face with her,  she had to be a total idiot seeing those huge piles of sludge that were there, did she actually think that would get mixed in? Our engineer well ADS doesnt have site engineers so he is the whatever actually said to some people those guys up on the hill are babies its not going anywhere. well low and behold Andy. anyway anyone want to know any details just message me on here.

I can tell you that the media that has been covering this has gone as far as they can with the information they have been given so far...

They could be pointed in the right direction, but they couldn't report on anything until it was specifically mentioned in the OSHA report. What it will take to keep the media's eyes on it now is someone that was there, someone that knows what happened, and someone that can say what they saw with their own eyes. Second hand information from 1000 miles away only goes so far...

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11 hours ago, landfillguy said:

I can tell you that the media that has been covering this has gone as far as they can with the information they have been given so far...

They could be pointed in the right direction, but they couldn't report on anything until it was specifically mentioned in the OSHA report. What it will take to keep the media's eyes on it now is someone that was there, someone that knows what happened, and someone that can say what they saw with their own eyes. Second hand information from 1000 miles away only goes so far...

These workers have a life and families they have to support. They can only say and go so far if they want to keep their jobs.

 I don't want to hear all about how a union or government laws will protect their livelyhood. If you throw a wrench in the wheel of how things are you will lose your job.


       THE WINDMILL IS LIBERALISM.

       MY QUEST----------REMOVE LIBERALISM FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

                                      ALONG WITH EXPOSING THE TPD FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS.

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10 hours ago, fedup said:

These workers have a life and families they have to support. They can only say and go so far if they want to keep their jobs.

 I don't want to hear all about how a union or government laws will protect their livelyhood. If you throw a wrench in the wheel of how things are you will lose your job.

I agree, but if that is the case then the story will fade away. If they feel like things will change and it won't happen again, then I understand not saying anything. I know they want the media to stay after it, but the media can only report what they can prove. I know it sounds like it's easy for me to say that I would leave because I don't know the local situation, but I would find it very hard to stay

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1 hour ago, landfillguy said:

I agree, but if that is the case then the story will fade away. If they feel like things will change and it won't happen again, then I understand not saying anything. I know they want the media to stay after it, but the media can only report what they can prove. I know it sounds like it's easy for me to say that I would leave because I don't know the local situation, but I would find it very hard to stay

 It's a tough call, for sure.


       THE WINDMILL IS LIBERALISM.

       MY QUEST----------REMOVE LIBERALISM FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

                                      ALONG WITH EXPOSING THE TPD FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS.

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1 hour ago, landfillguy said:

I agree, but if that is the case then the story will fade away. If they feel like things will change and it won't happen again, then I understand not saying anything. I know they want the media to stay after it, but the media can only report what they can prove. I know it sounds like it's easy for me to say that I would leave because I don't know the local situation, but I would find it very hard to stay

 

2 minutes ago, fedup said:

 It's a tough call, for sure.

Unless a way is found to stir up the media or the workers find a way to keep this moving I fear the whole thing will fade into obscurity.  That is extremely sad.

From a media view, this isn't the hot headline of the day and we are in a very small market for them.  We aren't dealing with the first string players.  I'm not even sure those who report locally could be the "B" team.  If a motivated reporter could get immersed in this and make it national news it could be a career making story.  I don't see any indication of that happening currently.

From the workers side they need to find a way to keep the media interested and investigating deeper and deeper.  That may require someone, or several someones, to put their jobs at risk.  Not an easy thing to do or expect someone else to do.

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the sad story is the whole sludge thing was the problem but ADS was only wrong because of bad business practices so to say. When the marcellus shale drilling started around here some politician that prob got a nice chunk of change from the gas industry made the changes to the sludge cap at PA landfills. Well someone pushed it anyway prob had to go through pa senate or something of that nature, but prob just pushed through because no one had any idea it was even an issue, the one of many problems with government. 

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On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 8:09 AM, shameless978 said:

the sad story is the whole sludge thing was the problem but ADS was only wrong because of bad business practices so to say. When the marcellus shale drilling started around here some politician that prob got a nice chunk of change from the gas industry made the changes to the sludge cap at PA landfills. Well someone pushed it anyway prob had to go through pa senate or something of that nature, but prob just pushed through because no one had any idea it was even an issue, the one of many problems with government. 

A fixed sludge cap is what I hoped to see come out of this, but I'm afraid this is going to fade away. My last hope is something more serious coming out of the DEP investigation, but I'm not holding my breath

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When the average citizen feels there isn't a way they can help fix it, they fade away, and this may be what happens.  It's sad and a shame for our legislators.


"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who watch them without doing anything"

Albert Einstein

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