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blueskylady

Eureka Math at DASD elementary schools

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22 hours ago, Snickers said:

Yes, I see it all the time. I took my kids to a local restaurant for lunch the other day. I had a coupon for a half dozen cookies from the bakery section, which I presented as we were checking out. The young cashier had no idea what to do with the coupon. She looked utterly perplexed. She then asked me, "What's 89 times 6?" I answered her and then she proceeded to deduct $5.34 from my bill. I realized what she was doing and told her she didn't need to deduct anything, as I hadn't paid for the cookies. I didn't even HAVE the cookies. All she needed to do was take the coupon and give me a half-dozen cookies. She still didn't get it. She wanted to deduct the amount and also give me the cookies. I'm wondering what would have happened if I told her 89 times 6 was 2,900. I guess I would have gotten lunch for free for all of us?

I always point out if I've been given too much change, undercharged for something, etc. because I have to be able to sleep at night with a clear conscience. But some of the young people working registers make it difficult to correct a mistake. They don't understand that they made one.

Disagree with what you are implying-------I remember kids in the 1950s & 1960s having the same trouble.........give me a break.....

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12 hours ago, Lizard said:

I think this way when I calculate tips and tax on items but I was never taught to do it in school. It just is easier when working in your head. Like doing 15% tip this way. Say bill was $24.60 you move the decimal point to the left for the 10% divide what's left by 2 and add the answers together : 2.46/2=1.23     2.46+1.23=3.69 tip

Tips are another place my OCD kicks in. I have to tip an amount to leave an even dollar amount on the bill, so I would round the bill up to $25, making the 15% $3.75. Mediocre service would be rounded down to $3.40 for a total of $28, or up to $4.40 or $5.40 depending on how good the service was

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1 hour ago, conservativeman633 said:

Disagree with what you are implying-------I remember kids in the 1950s & 1960s having the same trouble.........give me a break.....

Did I say this problem was new? Or unique to this generation? Because I don't remember typing that.

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13 minutes ago, conservativeman633 said:

Nor do I remember you typing that..................it is why I used the word "imply"...........agree?

No. I disagree.  I did not imply it was unique to this generation. In fact, my first job was working a cash register at G.C. Murphy. I was promoted on the first day from working the floor to register because the young woman working the register, same age as me, could not make change.

 

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21 hours ago, Lizard said:

I think this way when I calculate tips and tax on items but I was never taught to do it in school. It just is easier when working in your head. Like doing 15% tip this way. Say bill was $24.60 you move the decimal point to the left for the 10% divide what's left by 2 and add the answers together : 2.46/2=1.23     2.46+1.23=3.69 tip

That's how I've always done 15% tips in my head as well. Either that......or if service was really good, then divide by 5 to give a 20% tip.

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On 8/7/2017 at 8:46 AM, soccermom said:

The problem is, they'll mark his work wrong, even if he gets the correct answer. Instead of using technology to allow students to learn and advance at their pace, the industrial age education system is being ramped up even further.  

I really didn't care if they marked it wrong until he understood their way. The most important thing is understanding it. I told them about the reading too when he wasn't reading at the speed they deemed acceptable. I told them it is not about how fast he can read in first grade, he needs to understand what he is reading and as his comprehension improved his speed would naturally improve as well.  

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On 8/6/2017 at 0:40 AM, Punxsy2 said:

I don't have any kids yet..and when I do I will more than likely home school them.

 

I think that if it involves more parent involvement then that is great.

Sorry but I'm against  home schooling 

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35 minutes ago, JimmyPete said:

Sorry but I'm against  home schooling 

I am glad mine go to school. People complain all the time about DASD but my kids have been getting a good education. They interact with others and get away from mom and dad to be with others. Yes school has its quarks but id never home school. I feel they miss out on a lot.

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4 hours ago, allboys said:

I really didn't care if they marked it wrong until he understood their way. The most important thing is understanding it. I told them about the reading too when he wasn't reading at the speed they deemed acceptable. I told them it is not about how fast he can read in first grade, he needs to understand what he is reading and as his comprehension improved his speed would naturally improve as well.  

But that isn't the way things work in the real world. With Common Core, you can get a wrong answer and receive a good grade, but if you dare get the right answer using something other than their crazy way, it is wrong. That is crazy.

Unless people start standing up and fighting this, children will lose years of basic math education.

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23 minutes ago, Lyndsey33 said:

I am glad mine go to school. People complain all the time about DASD but my kids have been getting a good education. They interact with others and get away from mom and dad to be with others. Yes school has its quarks but id never home school. I feel they miss out on a lot.

I work from home and Summer breaks are very trying on my nerves. ?

Don't get me wrong, I love my kids and all, but being home with them 24/7 for 3 months straight while trying to get work done is NOT easy.

I could not imagine them being home schooled and being home 24/7 each month! 

There may be perks to home schooling (like being able to vacation whenever and wherever, avoiding bullying, etc.), but I feel as though kids need the social interaction that brick and mortar schools provide. Kids will become adults and possibly go to college or get a job. Living at home and never leaving doesn't prepare you for life post high school, in my opinion. I think kids need a routine and structure to prepare them for college life. I guess they could choose to do online college!

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1 hour ago, gopsu said:

I work from home and Summer breaks are very trying on my nerves. ?

Don't get me wrong, I love my kids and all, but being home with them 24/7 for 3 months straight while trying to get work done is NOT easy.

I could not imagine them being home schooled and being home 24/7 each month! 

There may be perks to home schooling (like being able to vacation whenever and wherever, avoiding bullying, etc.), but I feel as though kids need the social interaction that brick and mortar schools provide. Kids will become adults and possibly go to college or get a job. Living at home and never leaving doesn't prepare you for life post high school, in my opinion. I think kids need a routine and structure to prepare them for college life. I guess they could choose to do online college!

I know home schooled kids who go away to college camps, who play high school sports, and who go with groups of other home schooled kids to museums and such. Every one I've ever met was a well adjusted kid.

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2 hours ago, soccermom said:

But that isn't the way things work in the real world. With Common Core, you can get a wrong answer and receive a good grade, but if you dare get the right answer using something other than their crazy way, it is wrong. That is crazy.

Unless people start standing up and fighting this, children will lose years of basic math education.

You may as well give up, Soccermom.  It appears Common Core is the embodiment of progressive thought.  The answer doesn't matter as long as you look as though you're doing it the right was, and here is your trophy for trying with all your might.


Because, Gentlemen, I don't trust you...  Gunning Bedford, U.S. Constitutional Convention
The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal. Aristotle
First God created idiots.  That was for practice. Then He created school boards. Mark Twain
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana

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On 8/5/2017 at 5:39 PM, gopsu said:

When my kids were in elementary school just 2 or so years ago, I'd get so frustrated that they HAD to do their math the way they were taught instead of my much faster & easier way.

They were made to draw diagrams and some other dumb, time consuming things. 

I remember being told that "we wouldn't have a calculator with us all the time, so we had to know how to do math and show work."

Sorry math teachers...........I'd bet 90% of people carry a calculator with them daily.Screenshot_20170805-173851.png

Our math program (late 70s)..algebra I, algebra II, Geometry, Trig, and Calculus (yes, full year each of geometry and trig)...we were never allowed to use calculators, although one teacher said you could use an abacus or slide rule.  At various points, we were allowed to use log tables and trig function tables.  The concept was 'if you cannot do it on paper, you cannot do it with a calculator'.   Even after all these years, I still set up even the most simple problems on paper before even reaching for the calculator.  The 'kids' grab the calculator right away and start punching in numbers.  That may work for simple problems, but not so well as complexity grows, especially of multiple variables are involved.  The chief problem with calculators is people tend to accept whatever number appears in the screen as correct, even if it really doesn't make sense.  During problem set up, I pretty much have a general idea of what the answer should be by the time I reach for a calculator, and will know if I really screwed something up if the results are way different.  Calculators generally don't show your math steps and entries, so something as simple as transposing 2 numbers or missing a step can have disastrous effects on the results.  The really good part, is I can do mental math at a heck of a lot faster rate than most of the fresh college grads.

So, while some systems can be goofy, there is a lot to be said for learning to do math without the (un)trustworthy calculator.  A calculator is only a tool that is only as good as the person entry the information.  If you are not quite sure how to correctly enter a problem, all the calculator is then is a dull tool to arrive at an incorrect answer at a much faster rate.  Of course, if someone grabs my Reverse Polish Notation calculator, they are generally dead in the water.

And what if one day you are one of those 10% without a calculator at hand?

 

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8 minutes ago, Illiterate said:

Our math program (late 70s)..algebra I, algebra II, Geometry, Trig, and Calculus (yes, full year each of geometry and trig)...we were never allowed to use calculators, although one teacher said you could use an abacus or slide rule.  At various points, we were allowed to use log tables and trig function tables.  The concept was 'if you cannot do it on paper, you cannot do it with a calculator'.   Even after all these years, I still set up even the most simple problems on paper before even reaching for the calculator.  The 'kids' grab the calculator right away and start punching in numbers.  That may work for simple problems, but not so well as complexity grows, especially of multiple variables are involved.  The chief problem with calculators is people tend to accept whatever number appears in the screen as correct, even if it really doesn't make sense.  During problem set up, I pretty much have a general idea of what the answer should be by the time I reach for a calculator, and will know if I really screwed something up if the results are way different.  Calculators generally don't show your math steps and entries, so something as simple as transposing 2 numbers or missing a step can have disastrous effects on the results.  The really good part, is I can do mental math at a heck of a lot faster rate than most of the fresh college grads.

So, while some systems can be goofy, there is a lot to be said for learning to do math without the (un)trustworthy calculator.  A calculator is only a tool that is only as good as the person entry the information.  If you are not quite sure how to correctly enter a problem, all the calculator is then is a dull tool to arrive at an incorrect answer at a much faster rate.  Of course, if someone grabs my Reverse Polish Notation calculator, they are generally dead in the water.

And what if one day you are one of those 10% without a calculator at hand?

 

A calculator is like a computer......one incorrecrly pressed number/key and everything can be messed up. Missing the decimal point when dealing with numbers (especially money) can really screw things up!

You do need to have a clue on how to set up a math problem, however you shouldn't have to take 7 extra steps to get to the correct answer (like this new math is teaching our kids).

Why can't kids remember addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division factors like we all did...... without drawing pictures or splitting up numbers (so you get to an easier number like 10)?

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20 hours ago, bob_rx2000 said:

You may as well give up, Soccermom.  It appears Common Core is the embodiment of progressive thought.  The answer doesn't matter as long as you look as though you're doing it the right was, and here is your trophy for trying with all your might.

Since math is very ordered, the process IS important to obtaining the correct answer.  You can stumble into the correct answer by mistake even tho the process you followed made absolutely no sense or got an answer that you do not understand how you got there.  Also, while computer programs can make complex processes easy, it is really good to know the processes behind that answer.  For example, anyone can plug in the requested numbers into a mortgage calculator....they see their monthly payment.  Very few can do those same calculations by hand and understand the variables and how those variables affect the calculation.  Personally, I would hope my banker, accountant, or financial planner has abilities beyond just plugging numbers into a program.

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33 minutes ago, gopsu said:

A calculator is like a computer......one incorrecrly pressed number/key and everything can be messed up. Missing the decimal point when dealing with numbers (especially money) can really screw things up!

You do need to have a clue on how to set up a math problem, however you shouldn't have to take 7 extra steps to get to the correct answer (like this new math is teaching our kids).

Why can't kids remember addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division factors like we all did...... without drawing pictures or splitting up numbers (so you get to an easier number like 10)?

I get that some of the steps seem odd...to an adult.  But maybe they do actually help kids learn.  I don't really know.  I do remember learning basic addition and subtraction using pixie sticks in kindergarten.  How many is 6 or six?  How about VI?  110? 11?  The last 3 are all '6'  (Roman, binary, base 5 if memory serves me well, that is).  Point is, numbers, if you want to get philosophical about it, don't really exist.  The objects they represent do.  You really don't know how many 6 is until you have what we call 6 objects in front of you.  Maybe 6 - 3 = 3 really doesn't register with a young mind until they make 6 dots then erase 3 of them.  Maybe along the lines of red is red because it is red while trying to explain the color red to a person who has been blind since birth and has never seen red. How do you describe red? Would red still be red if it was originally called black?

 Remember Sesame Street?  How many is '6'?

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2 hours ago, Illiterate said:

 Reverse Polish Notation calculator,

 

 

I have mentioned on here before that I dropped out of college after one semester, and I place much of the blame here... :511:

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10 hours ago, landfillguy said:

I have mentioned on here before that I dropped out of college after one semester, and I place much of the blame here... :511:

Algebraic notation is most common...the way everyone learns to do math.  However, in any notation, you can only work with 2 numbers at a time.  So, 1+2+3 is really 1+2=3 then 3+3=6.  RPN IS 1 2 3++

 RPN puts the operator after the operands.   3+4 is entered as 3 4 +.   

Examples

2*3+4  is 4 3 2 * +

(15-5)/5 is  10 5 - 5 /

Looks strange, but has its advantages, mostly you can see the operators and it's done essentially one step.  With normal calcs you have to calculate each step....10 -5 =5  then calculate again  5/5.  You more or less build the problem the way you would actually do it.  

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On 8/7/2017 at 8:46 AM, soccermom said:

The problem is, they'll mark his work wrong, even if he gets the correct answer. Instead of using technology to allow students to learn and advance at their pace, the industrial age education system is being ramped up even further.  

The problem with over reliance on technology is you learn how solve a problem using someone else's solution(s) to solve the problem, often without learning the underlying concepts involved in solving the problem.   

The best example of this is photography. Today's cameras merely involve letting the camera do everything.  This works 95%+ of the time.  Most cannot adjust the camera if auto settings wont quite get the picture.  Now, if you learn on a camera that isn't totally automatic, you know know how to adjust for those other 5% of times.  Plus, you get to learn about aperature, speed, ISO, and a whole host of other subjects.  A lot of times, stumbling thru problems, meeting dead ends, creating cumbersome pathways, and having eureka moments is the actual education as opposed to merely using someone else's method.

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6 hours ago, Illiterate said:

The problem with over reliance on technology is you learn how solve a problem using someone else's solution(s) to solve the problem, often without learning the underlying concepts involved in solving the problem.   

The best example of this is photography. Today's cameras merely involve letting the camera do everything.  This works 95%+ of the time.  Most cannot adjust the camera if auto settings wont quite get the picture.  Now, if you learn on a camera that isn't totally automatic, you know know how to adjust for those other 5% of times.  Plus, you get to learn about aperature, speed, ISO, and a whole host of other subjects.  A lot of times, stumbling thru problems, meeting dead ends, creating cumbersome pathways, and having eureka moments is the actual education as opposed to merely using someone else's method.

We're talking about elementary school math, and the fact that this program has been tried by many school district's across the country for several years and deemed to be elephant droppings. I have no idea what a camera has to do with that. When I was referring to technology, I was speaking of education departments refusing to use computers to help children advance in a subject at their own pace, instead of requiring all 20-30 children to follow yet another "new" thing that many say simply does not work.

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On 8/7/2017 at 4:57 PM, Snickers said:

I wasn't implying she was stupid because she asked me what 89 x 6 is (although mental math isn't that hard to figure out or, at the very least, grab a calculator and maybe don't ask the customer for the answer because not everyone is honest). I'm saying she didn't even understand that she would need to add on the cost before she subtracted it if, indeed, there needed to be a paper trail. She just subtracted it and then wanted to give me the cookies. That was like giving away a whole dozen.

Now, if the clerk had said 'wait a moment, I need to check with someone on how handle this coupon'  would you sighed mightily and rolled your eyes and whatever else people do to show their displeasure for having to wait

 

On 8/7/2017 at 5:42 PM, Lyndsey33 said:

Adults dont seem to realize that these are teenagers they are dealing with. They havent been working as long, giving change as long, worrying about math figures as long. Quit expecting them to be these amazing math whizzes at a high school job.

Serving the public, especially as a first job, is a horrible experience.  Too many people think they have the inherent right to say anything they want to the person behind the counter.  Arrogance and rudeness is the norm by customers.  The dumb girl behind the counter could be 4.0 in college, but at that point is fried by having to deal with the parade of rude and ignorant and self important patrons for whom she must smile and nod and just take the abuse.  So what, she got confused over a coupon.  Does that make her stupid?  Nope.  Have you ever handed a clerk too much money or too little?  Should they assume you don't know what you are doing or have no math skills?

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