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Petee

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You can do the same thing with Japanese Knotweed but you have to stay diligent in case any manages to get through.


"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who watch them without doing anything"

Albert Einstein

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8 hours ago, Illiterate said:

If you don't need to replant right away, after pulling them up and/or carpet bombing with weed killer, you can put down a few layers of thick cardboard and/or a thick layer of newspaper over the area (and a bit beyond.  The cardboard/newspaper should eventually kill every thing underneath.  If you cover it with mulch or dirt, you can just leave it in place then just plant into it after a month or so.  No need to pull it up since it will decompose rather quickly.  Note: If you use cardboard, make sure to peel off any plastic coated labels and no wax coated cardboard).

I once had a huge chunk of yard (about 1000-1500 sq ft) overrun big time with a thick layer of moss, mostly due to neglect and crappy clay soil.  Nothing worked to really get rid of it as it would just come roaring back.  The pro yard guys wanted to dig it up and replant or sod, which I thought was too expensive.  After a bit of experimentation, this formula worked:  heavy dose moss killer,  heavy dose of cheap barn lime, 2 layers of cardboard, covered the cardboard with a mix of my clay soil (leftover from construction), fresh grass clippings, and the 'compost' created by the previous now rotting grass piles.  I planted the new grass seed right away in to clippings/clay mix and covered it with straw and fertilized as directed.  Almost 10 years later, it is still the thickest part of my yard.  (Plus the kids are now gone or off at college so I have time to putter around the yard.)

Actually you have reinvented what the "experts" call lasagna gardening.  

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14 hours ago, lavender said:

Actually you have reinvented what the "experts" call lasagna gardening.  

Just copied what my grandmother did about 50 years ago.  She simply got too old to bend down and get on her knees to regularly weed.  The cardboard and grass clippings merely served as a method keep the weeds down.  She would struggle through with the planting because no else would do it right.  My main job was to cover the garden layer after layer of cardboard and newspapers at the end of the season and spread lime.  I give my dad credit for 'inventing' the raised garden.  When she reached the point she could not get down to plant, he built her 'garden boxes'  out of shipping pallets and scrap lumber.  The boxes where 2 or 3 ft high so she could sit in a stool or chair and tend her garden.     There was no such thing as compost bins back then.  Folks would just dump their scraps and yard waste right into the garden and turn it over in the spring...at least in our neighborhood...along with fresh steaming piles of chicken and cow manure and other barn waste.  There was none of this C:N ratio or brown to greens.  Some people just like to make things way to complex.  A lot of things used to be done simply because it worked.  

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A lot of people have given up on gardening or didn't have a "teacher" to show them the basics and how to do less maintenance on the gardens.  That's what Master Gardeners do.  They teach, and judging from the money authors are making on Horticultural books, and the number of calls that come into the Jefferson County Master Gardener Hot Line,  lots of people need help and new/old ideas on how to keep it all together and productive.

From extremely experienced to brand new gardeners, everyone needs a hand at some time, and if a catchy name will help them remember or understand, then let them grow.  Every time I am with gardeners I learn something new!  It never fails.   That's what it's all about.  Helping others grow.


"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who watch them without doing anything"

Albert Einstein

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5 minutes ago, Petee said:

A lot of people have given up on gardening or didn't have a "teacher" to show them the basics and how to do less maintenance on the gardens.  That's what Master Gardeners do.  They teach, and judging from the money authors are making on Horticultural books, and the number of calls that come into the Jefferson County Master Gardener Hot Line,  lots of people need help and new/old ideas on how to keep it all together and productive.

From extremely experienced to brand new gardeners, everyone needs a hand at some time, and if a catchy name will help them remember or understand, then let them grow.  Every time I am with gardeners I learn something new!  It never fails.   That's what it's all about.  Helping others grow.

My first year gerdening I had a John Deere tractor with a tiller and a garden over a quarter of an acre. My 81 year old grandma had a walk behind from time tiller, a shovel, and a 20x40 garden. She also had 70+ years experience, and embarrassed me with how many more vegetables she pulled out than me. Nobody told me not to till the garden when it was wet :duh:

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Here's a hint, if your garden is small enough to do so, then do the raised row system (yes, you can do it with machinery) and then mulch between the rows with shredded newspaper, old wood chips, old sawdust, or any kind of organic matter.  Big commercial farms use fabric or plastic sheets which are expensive, but the weed load is so much less, and the produce is so much better because no soil touches the plants or crop.  The plants are healthier, and there's less weed and insect pressure.  Your grandma was right because when you work wet soil, you compact the soil so water and oxygen cannot get down to the roots.  


"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who watch them without doing anything"

Albert Einstein

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On 7/11/2018 at 7:25 PM, lavender said:

Actually you have reinvented what the "experts" call lasagna gardening.  

Lasagna, I eat, gardening not so much.  All that work to eliminate moss which is green and doesn't need mowed with grass that is green and requires mowing is counterproductive to me.

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1 hour ago, hipower said:

Lasagna, I eat, gardening not so much.  All that work to eliminate moss which is green and doesn't need mowed with grass that is green and requires mowing is counterproductive to me.

There is a nice moss garden at Falling Water or was so it is a choice.  Moss in the lawn however is a sign of poor soil and poor drainage. You can eat more of the lasagna on your plate if you get out in the yard and eliminate moss and grow stuff.  Life if a jigsaw puzzle. If you don't fit all of the pieces in you don't get a picture. What picture is also a choice. Done being philosophical. Might be an overheated brain acquired pulling weeds. 

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17 hours ago, lavender said:

There is a nice moss garden at Falling Water or was so it is a choice.  Moss in the lawn however is a sign of poor soil and poor drainage. You can eat more of the lasagna on your plate if you get out in the yard and eliminate moss and grow stuff.  Life if a jigsaw puzzle. If you don't fit all of the pieces in you don't get a picture. What picture is also a choice. Done being philosophical. Might be an overheated brain acquired pulling weeds. 

The poor soil I've got covered in spades.  The poor drainage not so much.  Actually the drainage is quite good since we have never had any issue with a damp basement where many others in our area have water issues and sump pumps.  The moss and I have reached an impasse.  I won't spend time and money trying to kill it and it won't grow high enough to require mowing.  Now if I could reach the same agreement with the odd weeds that appear in my moss beds I could sit on the deck and admire the greenery with a cold beer in hand.

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If you decide that you would like to get rid of that moss and probably the specific weeds that have chosen to grow in it, pick up a Penn State Soil Test Kit and follow the directions carefully.  They will give you specific amendments on how to deal with it.


"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who watch them without doing anything"

Albert Einstein

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5 hours ago, hipower said:

The poor soil I've got covered in spades.  The poor drainage not so much.  Actually the drainage is quite good since we have never had any issue with a damp basement where many others in our area have water issues and sump pumps.  The moss and I have reached an impasse.  I won't spend time and money trying to kill it and it won't grow high enough to require mowing.  Now if I could reach the same agreement with the odd weeds that appear in my moss beds I could sit on the deck and admire the greenery with a cold beer in hand.

The fellow who built your house may just have known what he was doing. They put in something, I forget what,  when the dig the foundation that keeps water out of the basement. Does French drains sound right?

There comes a time in life when all sensible gardeners stop trying to fight Mother Nature and go with the flow. I'm getting there. I've decided that violets make as good a ground cover as anything I could buy from a nursery and they are hassle free. 

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On 7/13/2018 at 10:36 AM, hipower said:

Lasagna, I eat, gardening not so much.  All that work to eliminate moss which is green and doesn't need mowed with grass that is green and requires mowing is counterproductive to me.

Mowing is one of those activities that appears you are doing something, but really are not.  You'r just riding around on a go-kart with a blade.  Takes me about 3 hours to mow my lawn and during that time, no one bothers me.  SO more grass is a benefit.  If I had less grass and was just sitting on the porch drinking a cold one, the wife would undoubtedly find something for me to do that requires more effort and energy than mowing the lawn.  Also, the cup holders on a lawn mower are useless....putting your beer in one usually causes foamy beer.

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15 hours ago, Petee said:

If you decide that you would like to get rid of that moss and probably the specific weeds that have chosen to grow in it, pick up a Penn State Soil Test Kit and follow the directions carefully.  They will give you specific amendments on how to deal with it.

Just a note on any thing that is named Penn State...i.e. Penn State grass mix, Penn State fertilizer, etc.  Typically, Penn State, as in the university, has nothing to do with those products.  It seems Penn State University actually does not market or produce any products for retail sale.  (Unless things have recently changed.)

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On 7/12/2018 at 2:11 PM, Petee said:

Here's a hint, if your garden is small enough to do so, then do the raised row system (yes, you can do it with machinery) and then mulch between the rows with shredded newspaper, old wood chips, old sawdust, or any kind of organic matter.  Big commercial farms use fabric or plastic sheets which are expensive, but the weed load is so much less, and the produce is so much better because no soil touches the plants or crop.  The plants are healthier, and there's less weed and insect pressure.  Your grandma was right because when you work wet soil, you compact the soil so water and oxygen cannot get down to the roots.  

The best choice in gardening is to let some else do the work.  Every year, people are giving away a lot of stuff they can't possibly use

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12 hours ago, Illiterate said:

The best choice in gardening is to let some else do the work.  Every year, people are giving away a lot of stuff they can't possibly use

Too true! We've mostly got more stuff than we can ever get rid of.  When you are reduced to driving around with veggies in the back of the trunk hoping you will run into someone who needs a cabbage you are truly pathetic. 

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