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Former student teacher accused of inappropriate relationship with student

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3 minutes ago, Polo said:

I remember how immature I was at 14 and 15.  Totally in the dark about the dynamics of life in general.  However, that was a different time and much different than teens have it now.  Emotionally, though, that age bracket is still too immature to be involved in a sexual relationship, let alone with someone older, especially in their 20's.  That is why its a crime.  Even though they are a teen, they are essentially still a child in their thinking.

Not sure, beyond technology, if being a teen today is that much different.....

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Just now, conservativeman633 said:

Not sure, beyond technology, if being a teen today is that much different.....

I guess I should have mentioned that technology thing.  That's what I meant by what I said.  Today, with technology, today's kids are much more in the know. 


Every day is a gift from God; that's why we call it the "present!"

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1 minute ago, Polo said:

I guess I should have mentioned that technology thing.  That's what I meant by what I said.  Today, with technology, today's kids are much more in the know. 

Or THINK they are but they don't understand the ramifications of the behavior that they are emulating. 

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The youth of today are seemingly exposed to more blatant sexuality via the mass media.  Television, movies, music, etc. than in the past.  What is more constant is our desire as a society to place a number, age wise, on when each person magically changes from a child to an adult.  We can all cite examples of people who never seem to become adults regardless of age, and many others who are completely the opposite.  Yet society holds all of them to the same standard based only on a number.

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33 minutes ago, hipower said:

The youth of today are seemingly exposed to more blatant sexuality via the mass media.  Television, movies, music, etc. than in the past.  What is more constant is our desire as a society to place a number, age wise, on when each person magically changes from a child to an adult.  We can all cite examples of people who never seem to become adults regardless of age, and many others who are completely the opposite.  Yet society holds all of them to the same standard based only on a number.

 This is basically what I am trying to say. Many adults don't seem to "understand the ramifications" of their sexual behavior so I don't see this as a valid criteria for setting an age limit on who can do what with whom. It really comes down, in my opinion, to whom is being harmed. No harm no foul. I really think that this is the reason that the public gives boys more leeway in this type of relationship. They, and men especially, do not see them as being harmed by it. It is a situation in which I, at least, must accept what men say. This is like a doctor saying something isn't going to hurt. Do you believe the doctor or the patient? Some girls are probably just as  blasé about it as their male counterparts. Some girls and, perhaps boys as well. get hurt because they built some romantic fantasy and this is where girls are more vulnerable. Few boys think that their princess. 10 years older than they are, is going to ride up on a white horse and carry them off to the castle. Girls always did and many probably still do. Maybe teaching them if they want the castle they should earn it would solve the problem, but I digress. 

Solution? Probably none but it is still unfair to treat all of these cases as a situation in which one person is a monsterous predator and the other is an innocent babe. A teacher who has an affair with a student is stupid and committing professional suicide. He/she may be a monster as well but that should be decided on an individual case basis. 

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But if this was a guy teacher he would be called sick and perverted etc more so  then this woman. Since this is a woman my thought was yeah she shouldn't have done it but she did but what ever she's cute looking.   It should be the same thought no matter who did it.   I wonder if she has to be a Megan law offender. 

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Unfortunately, this teacher is on a long list in Pennsylvania - https://www.pennlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/09/cb4083ddd9174/sex-crimes-with-students-cost.html

Also, please keep in mind that in some cases teachers are wrongfully accused.  Teacher friend taught in a middle school and was accused of inappropriate relationship/rape.  Was on the news all over the place.  The kid later admitted to lying and charges were dropped.  That was no where to be found on the news.  She eventually had to quite because the stigma followed her each day. 

My 2 cents on the topic at hand: teenagers are still trying to master the art of hygiene.  It's gross to stand next to half of them, why would I want to fornicate with one.  

  

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On 9/23/2018 at 3:00 PM, LFG said:

The idea is the same, though. You asked why it seemed as if people weren't as concerned if the boy were under aged. I'm not saying it's right, but most of us guys remember how we were at 14. We start obsessing about that stuff way before girls do, and older women (or girls) were often the objects of our fantasies. I'm willing to bet the only reason the boy got caught is because he was bragging to his friends. 

Most boys at that age fantasize about 'it', but are most likely scared of 'it' and have little idea of what to do with 'it' even if they managed to get 'it'.  However, the girl of that age are more aware of using 'it', knowing the affect 'it' has on boys of the same age and how to use the power of 'it' over the boys.  Just go to any mall, little league field, or high school event. See who is in charge.  Boys (and men, too) do the dumbest things while under the influence of the power of 'it'.

The 14 yo boy with a 22 yo girl is a misuse of power. The 22 yo holds all the cards.  Generally speaking, most 14 yo do not have the rational thinking ability to make informed decisions when faced with unusual situations.  The 22 yo knows she has power over the 14 yo.  While a 14 yo may resemble a full grown physical adult, mentally they are not.

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I have a son in middle school. I monitor his cell phone daily and we have a lot of very frank talks about what I see. He and his friends are very very much still children, even with all that they are exposed to on the internet.

The flip side of this is that I was once a teenager with a much much older boy friend. At 14/15 I felt very worldly and mature, but by the time I was a young adult I was able to recognize the crazy power imbalance of an 8 year age gap and how much I missed out on by trying to grow up too quickly. As a parent with a child in the ame age bracket, I wonder why my parents didn’t call the cops!

In a nut shell, kids need to be kids and the first relationships they have should be with their peers. Adults have no business with kids, and it says a lot about the adult that seeks out that power/experience imbalance.

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On 9/24/2018 at 11:26 AM, lavender said:

 This is basically what I am trying to say. Many adults don't seem to "understand the ramifications" of their sexual behavior so I don't see this as a valid criteria for setting an age limit on who can do what with whom. It really comes down, in my opinion, to whom is being harmed. No harm no foul. I really think that this is the reason that the public gives boys more leeway in this type of relationship. They, and men especially, do not see them as being harmed by it. It is a situation in which I, at least, must accept what men say. This is like a doctor saying something isn't going to hurt. Do you believe the doctor or the patient? Some girls are probably just as  blasé about it as their male counterparts. Some girls and, perhaps boys as well. get hurt because they built some romantic fantasy and this is where girls are more vulnerable. Few boys think that their princess. 10 years older than they are, is going to ride up on a white horse and carry them off to the castle. Girls always did and many probably still do. Maybe teaching them if they want the castle they should earn it would solve the problem, but I digress. 

Solution? Probably none but it is still unfair to treat all of these cases as a situation in which one person is a monsterous predator and the other is an innocent babe. A teacher who has an affair with a student is stupid and committing professional suicide. He/she may be a monster as well but that should be decided on an individual case basis. 

I thought about this for a day or two then decided most of the concept of boys being less likely to be harmed and girls are more vulnerable is absolute, total, utter BS.  Boys. and men, are just likely to be hurt, damaged, or whatever you want to call it as the fairer sex.  The difference is that the male of the species is supposed to just suffer in silence.  For a male to admit feeling used, hurt, possibly abused, buy a female would prompt ridicule, even in the age of the feminization of young males.  You are expected to act 'manly'.  You are told to show and talk about your feelings, yet when you do, is is not acceptable.  In the real world, you don't see many 14 or 15 yo boys dating 18+ yo girls.  It is very common to see 14 and 15 yo girls chasing after and dating (to put it mildly) 18+ yo boys (men).  As girls mature faster both physically and mentally than do their boy counterparts, it can be argued that boys are more likely to be harmed than girls of the same age.  In addition, the boys have the added pressure of acting 'manly' (as in 'stfu, you know you enjoyed it') whereas the girls can go into full vulnerability mode no matter her role in the event.

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9 hours ago, Illiterate said:

I thought about this for a day or two then decided most of the concept of boys being less likely to be harmed and girls are more vulnerable is absolute, total, utter BS.  Boys. and men, are just likely to be hurt, damaged, or whatever you want to call it as the fairer sex.  The difference is that the male of the species is supposed to just suffer in silence.  For a male to admit feeling used, hurt, possibly abused, buy a female would prompt ridicule, even in the age of the feminization of young males.  You are expected to act 'manly'.  You are told to show and talk about your feelings, yet when you do, is is not acceptable.  In the real world, you don't see many 14 or 15 yo boys dating 18+ yo girls.  It is very common to see 14 and 15 yo girls chasing after and dating (to put it mildly) 18+ yo boys (men).  As girls mature faster both physically and mentally than do their boy counterparts, it can be argued that boys are more likely to be harmed than girls of the same age.  In addition, the boys have the added pressure of acting 'manly' (as in 'stfu, you know you enjoyed it') whereas the girls can go into full vulnerability mode no matter her role in the event.

I checked to ascertain your gender and you "aren't telling." That makes it hard to add you to my poll. From what I am reading on here men are saying it isn't something that they see as harmful. That is direct source material not something that is being interpreted via a psychologist or a legal position. Not everyone is alike so as I said some boys may be affected differently but since these anonymous males are saying hallelujah to the situation described I see no reason to assume that social pressure is making them suppress their true feelings of vulnerability.  

I think the most important point is your final words "role in the event." It is important to take this into consideration. Designate your victim by "role in the event" rather than an arbitrary age. This was my original premise, which led to the question of whether boys were less vulnerable than girls. And I agree that girls and perhaps boys as well fall back on the "vulnerability mode" when confronted with their actions. The law allows them to do this and I don't think it is in their best interests. We all need to take responsibility for our actions especially in the area of sex. Guess why we are having this mess we are currently having? If more people would have acted responsibly 30 years ago this farce would not have developed. 

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1 hour ago, Sanibel said:

I feel differently about an eighteen year old senior dating a 15 year old sophomore in high school than ANY teacher/student relationship. She absolutely broke the law and should go to jail. 

Yet the 18 year old can be prosecuted for statutory rape if the parents of the 15 year old bring charges. I agree with the teacher/student thing on any and all facets but it is too complex a situation for one arbitrary law to cover all cases. 

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11 hours ago, lavender said:

I checked to ascertain your gender and you "aren't telling." That makes it hard to add you to my poll. From what I am reading on here men are saying it isn't something that they see as harmful. That is direct source material not something that is being interpreted via a psychologist or a legal position. Not everyone is alike so as I said some boys may be affected differently but since these anonymous males are saying hallelujah to the situation described I see no reason to assume that social pressure is making them suppress their true feelings of vulnerability.  

I think the most important point is your final words "role in the event." It is important to take this into consideration. Designate your victim by "role in the event" rather than an arbitrary age. This was my original premise, which led to the question of whether boys were less vulnerable than girls. And I agree that girls and perhaps boys as well fall back on the "vulnerability mode" when confronted with their actions. The law allows them to do this and I don't think it is in their best interests. We all need to take responsibility for our actions especially in the area of sex. Guess why we are having this mess we are currently having? If more people would have acted responsibly 30 years ago this farce would not have developed. 

Male. Married over 30 years. Father of both genders.

I would expect nearly every male on the board to go into the high-fiving, atta-boy antics.   However, I seriously doubt any of them ever got laid at 14 or 15, with most of their sexual gratification taken care of alone with a discarded Playboy or most likely the lingerie section of the Sears catalog.  I also doubt any of them would celebrate their own son having sex at 14 or 15, especially with a 22 yo.   Even the most caring, loving, devoted husband and father possesses the ability to convert to Grunt the Caveman/Sam the Stud when around his friends.  Intimate discussions on relationships, feelings, other hints of potential vulnerability are typically not conducted while popping beers at hunting camp or around the garage or pouring cement for the new driveway. 

You chose to a paint a picture of most young girls having a princess fantasy about relationships whereas boys are essentially a gang of pillaging, unfeeling marauders.  Through my own kids and having coached boys (and occasionally girls) over the years, I can tell you boys are walking bags of hormones but are highly confused about sex, relationships, and how it all fits together.  They talk a good game, but are lost in the fog when they finally take the field, so to speak.  The girls learn their sexuality and the effect on the opposite gender earlier than the boys.  The girls know wearing just their sports bra and micro-shorts get a reaction.  The problem is neither gender is mature enough to understand the ramifications and responsibilities that go with it.   However, someone 8 to 10 or more years older would be, or should be, expected to have achieved a certain level of maturity, based on their own experiences, that someone much younger really has no clue.  So, to say a young girl should be held accountable for actions (such as enticing the much older male)she only vaguely is beginning to understand is incredulous.  In both cases, the older the participant is using greater knowledge and experience to control, or at least take advantage of, a situation in which they should know better.    In either case, there is no way of exactly knowing how adversely future views on sex and relationships will be affected.

The age law isn't absolute.  For example, a 17 yo that is dating (and having sex) with a 15 yo girl cannot be suddenly prosecuted for statutory rape the day he turns 18 even though he is dating a 15 yo.  The law has age ranges and other factors, such as when the relationship started, how long the relationship existed, how long they have known each other and under what circumstances the relationship began.

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7 hours ago, Illiterate said:

I would expect nearly every male on the board to go into the high-fiving, atta-boy antics.   However, I seriously doubt any of them ever got laid at 14 or 15, with most of their sexual gratification taken care of alone with a discarded Playboy or most likely the lingerie section of the Sears catalog

Crude as it is, this is where some of the tongue in cheek reaction comes from. I remember being 15, and Cosmo had some rather nice ads as well, so if a young teacher had offered to replace some of those activities I doubt that many of us would have objected. It quite possibly could have caused me psychological damage, but no more than my dad, so why isn't he in jail? ;) 

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11 hours ago, Illiterate said:

Male. Married over 30 years. Father of both genders.

I would expect nearly every male on the board to go into the high-fiving, atta-boy antics.   However, I seriously doubt any of them ever got laid at 14 or 15, with most of their sexual gratification taken care of alone with a discarded Playboy or most likely the lingerie section of the Sears catalog.  I also doubt any of them would celebrate their own son having sex at 14 or 15, especially with a 22 yo.   Even the most caring, loving, devoted husband and father possesses the ability to convert to Grunt the Caveman/Sam the Stud when around his friends.  Intimate discussions on relationships, feelings, other hints of potential vulnerability are typically not conducted while popping beers at hunting camp or around the garage or pouring cement for the new driveway. 

You chose to a paint a picture of most young girls having a princess fantasy about relationships whereas boys are essentially a gang of pillaging, unfeeling marauders.  Through my own kids and having coached boys (and occasionally girls) over the years, I can tell you boys are walking bags of hormones but are highly confused about sex, relationships, and how it all fits together.  They talk a good game, but are lost in the fog when they finally take the field, so to speak.  The girls learn their sexuality and the effect on the opposite gender earlier than the boys.  The girls know wearing just their sports bra and micro-shorts get a reaction.  The problem is neither gender is mature enough to understand the ramifications and responsibilities that go with it.   However, someone 8 to 10 or more years older would be, or should be, expected to have achieved a certain level of maturity, based on their own experiences, that someone much younger really has no clue.  So, to say a young girl should be held accountable for actions (such as enticing the much older male)she only vaguely is beginning to understand is incredulous.  In both cases, the older the participant is using greater knowledge and experience to control, or at least take advantage of, a situation in which they should know better.    In either case, there is no way of exactly knowing how adversely future views on sex and relationships will be affected.

The age law isn't absolute.  For example, a 17 yo that is dating (and having sex) with a 15 yo girl cannot be suddenly prosecuted for statutory rape the day he turns 18 even though he is dating a 15 yo.  The law has age ranges and other factors, such as when the relationship started, how long the relationship existed, how long they have known each other and under what circumstances the relationship began.

While I agree with some of what you say it is a thoughtful opinion on the thoughts and reactions of young boys and girls. What LFG is giving me is primary source material. Yours (and mine) are opinion his is not. This is all I am saying. The majority of men on here are saying one thing from first hand experience of being boys. I can't speak for boys never having been one. I have however been a young girl and can testify that young boys and older ones can be  "pillaging, unfeeling marauders." Been there done that, as the saying goes. Came out unscatherd which makes me wonder about the whole "metoo" movement and the Kavanaugh mess. In most of these cases there are probably no "innocent" parties. I guess I am cynical but there is a price to pay for everything and only a fool doesn't realize that. 

There are a couple of points that I want to address. One is that girls learn the effect of their sexuality earlier. This is probably true but it is only true because girls produce the physical attributes of their sexuality earlier. Not to disparage 14 year old boys but few of them are appealing. Girls may understand the power of a pair of micro shorts but they should also take responsibility for wearing them. A baby soon learns that a match will burn his fingers. We  can learn cause and effect very young. It behooves us to learn it. Our actions bring about reactions and we can't plead no responsibility because we are under a certain age. So I don't see anything incredulous in a young girl being responsible for behaving in a manner that is not likely to cause problems to her well being. The baby doesn't understand why the match burns but he does understand that it does. 

The second point is parental wishes on the subject. Of course none of us want our teenagers indulging in sex especially with someone older who may be exploiting them. However, it does happen, which is why there are so many cases of babies having babies. It is the young person who makes the decision and not the parent. Whose decision should it be? Whose decision is it ultimately? If you make a decision you cannot claim lack of responsibility for it later. How do we raise adults that you wish to take responsibility for all of their interactions with young people if we don't teach young people to take responsibility for their own actions? Life is what it is not what we want it to be and the best thing we can do is teach our children to deal with it. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, lavender said:

While I agree with some of what you say it is a thoughtful opinion on the thoughts and reactions of young boys and girls. What LFG is giving me is primary source material. Yours (and mine) are opinion his is not. This is all I am saying. The majority of men on here are saying one thing from first hand experience of being boys

Wait, am I supposed to give this a :good: or :negative:?

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5 hours ago, LFG said:

Crude as it is, this is where some of the tongue in cheek reaction comes from. I remember being 15, and Cosmo had some rather nice ads as well, so if a young teacher had offered to replace some of those activities I doubt that many of us would have objected. It quite possibly could have caused me psychological damage, but no more than my dad, so why isn't he in jail? ;) 

While fun to fantasize about the cute 22 yo student teacher, be willing to lay money on you turning tail and running.  Real life is different than the pages of a Cosmo.  It is possible the 22yo could talk you into it.. into an essentially forced decision.   At that point, she is taking control over you.    Based on your experiences and knowledge you have obtained over the years, it is easy to say now 'yeah, I would hit that' without hesitation.  I look back at all the 'opportunities' I missed.  If I knew what I know now, things would be different...maybe.

I had coached around high school age boys for over a decade.  They forget you are there and you hear all the talk of what they would do..or think they would do.  Then, comes prom time. They struggle with the courage and self-assurance to ask for a prom date.   You see all the doubts and fears creep in... What if she says no?  What if she doesn't like me?  OMG, I can't dance!  Now transfer all those fears and insecurities into a sexual experience....just don't see many 15yo boys strutting into a sexual encounter.  

 

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1 hour ago, Illiterate said:

While fun to fantasize about the cute 22 yo student teacher, be willing to lay money on you turning tail and running.  Real life is different than the pages of a Cosmo.  It is possible the 22yo could talk you into it.. into an essentially forced decision.   At that point, she is taking control over you.    Based on your experiences and knowledge you have obtained over the years, it is easy to say now 'yeah, I would hit that' without hesitation.  I look back at all the 'opportunities' I missed.  If I knew what I know now, things would be different...maybe.

I had coached around high school age boys for over a decade.  They forget you are there and you hear all the talk of what they would do..or think they would do.  Then, comes prom time. They struggle with the courage and self-assurance to ask for a prom date.   You see all the doubts and fears creep in... What if she says no?  What if she doesn't like me?  OMG, I can't dance!  Now transfer all those fears and insecurities into a sexual experience....just don't see many 15yo boys strutting into a sexual encounter.  

 

That's where I see the difference, though. There's no doubt that I was terrified to ask a girl to the prom, absolutely couldn't dance, all of that. If the girl was making the first move, though, I might not strut but I doubt I would have run

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1 hour ago, LFG said:

Wait, am I supposed to give this a :good: or :negative:?

Yeah or nay is your choice. None of us are 15 year old boys so I assume that none of us is lying to himself about what he did or would do. I guess by now you know yourself fairly well so I'm adding you to the "personal experience column" rather than the "observation/opinion"  column.  I don't presume to speak for anyone else. I take responsibility for what I did when I was young and am not going to say I was coerced or it was someone else's fault. All I want to see is young people taking some responsibility for their own behaviour. You can't, in my opinion, say it was all someone else' fault up to a certain arbitrary age and then say after that the responsibility evolves upon one's self. Where is the learning curve?

My original interest was the number of posts with men saying that this situation (other than maybe the fact that it was a teacher) was not one they had a problem with yet it was against the law. We may not agree with certain situation but should they be illegal? Society is complex and what was acceptable yesterday is not acceptable today and what we accept today my be found abhorrent in the future. And, of course, how people react varies widely.

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11 minutes ago, LFG said:

That's where I see the difference, though. There's no doubt that I was terrified to ask a girl to the prom, absolutely couldn't dance, all of that. If the girl was making the first move, though, might not strut but I doubt I would have run

Sometimes I get too much information and from what I am hearing girls aren't running either although the ones I hear from aren't 15 years old. TMI!

I suspect that most people are more insecure around those that they respect and want to think well of them than those in a different category. And that is as indelicate as I am going to get on a public forum. 

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We pass blanket laws trying to cover every situation. Can't be done. Some people don't fit under that blanket.

Here comes the lawyers twisting and turning trying to place someone under that blanket or get them out from under it.


       THE WINDMILL IS LIBERALISM.

       MY QUEST----------REMOVE LIBERALISM FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

                                      ALONG WITH EXPOSING THE TPD FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS.

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I have to admit, that there has been some very good thoughtful posts on this subject. Some of you have put a lot of thought into a touchy subject.

 


       THE WINDMILL IS LIBERALISM.

       MY QUEST----------REMOVE LIBERALISM FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

                                      ALONG WITH EXPOSING THE TPD FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS.

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42 minutes ago, lavender said:

Yeah or nay is your choice. None of us are 15 year old boys so I assume that none of us is lying to himself about what he did or would do. I guess by now you know yourself fairly well so I'm adding you to the "personal experience column" rather than the "observation/opinion"  column.  I don't presume to speak for anyone else. I take responsibility for what I did when I was young and am not going to say I was coerced or it was someone else's fault. All I want to see is young people taking some responsibility for their own behaviour. You can't, in my opinion, say it was all someone else' fault up to a certain arbitrary age and then say after that the responsibility evolves upon one's self. Where is the learning curve?

My original interest was the number of posts with men saying that this situation (other than maybe the fact that it was a teacher) was not one they had a problem with yet it was against the law. We may not agree with certain situation but should they be illegal? Society is complex and what was acceptable yesterday is not acceptable today and what we accept today my be found abhorrent in the future. And, of course, how people react varies widely.

I'm not saying I don't have a problem with it. Through the eyes of a 45 year old it's obviously wrong, the young teacher is obviously damaged, and could possibly have damaged the boy. All I have done is offered an honest reply as to why the guys have a different reaction to this situation if the sexes are reversed. Sure, maybe it's the same predator/victim relationship either way, but can many of you honestly say that you wouldn't be much more outraged if it were a male teacher and female student? Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just sexist, but yes, in my mind it's worse if the student is a girl. I'll echo what you said, I've never been a 15 year old girl so I can't speak to that experience, but saying a 15 year old boy would accept the advances of a 22 year old woman isn't bravado, it's fact in most cases. Yes, in my mind it would be much worse if it were a male teacher and a female student. If that makes me sexist, I'm sorry

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