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Banning Alcohol in Colleges and DC

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8 hours ago, lavender said:

The 1770s protected woman because they were thought to be helpless, silly and probably stupid creatures who could neither think for themselves, control their behavior or manage their own lives. It was a great way to keep them subjugated and under control. Anyone who thinks that women are not the masters of their own destiny is treating them in the same fashion they treated them in the 1770s as helpless creatures or fragile flowers.   Yes, it is a very poor attitude.  We don't need more laws we need more women like illiterate's daughter. 

……...maybe...………...perhaps way too many hold it in, instead of doing something about it...…………...it takes tons of courage

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8 hours ago, lavender said:

Explain exactly how a man has the advantage if a woman refuses to associate with him, removes herself from situations that might be dangerous and keeps her wits about her. You are assuming apparently that large numbers of men are willing to use physical violence in a dating or social situation. Let us discount those who prowl the streets looking for hapless prey. Do you know many men who behave this way? I don't. 

……..you see?...….women are forced to make all the choices …………..

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17 hours ago, fedup said:

ME 4 MOVEMENT.

ME, ME, ME, it's all about ME.

We are witnessing a catastrophic change in America that rivals the Civil War.

It's time for people to start using their own minds and quit listening to those that wants to change your common sense.

Don't be fooled by the foolers and their hateful agenda.

Stay the course that our country laid out for us.

Social media has destroyed the USA. people cant think for themselves.

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Every man is not a sexual predator but girls/women must learn at an early age that in order to survive every man is a potential predator and that SHE is prey. Of course, a woman has to use common sense in her activities just like everyone else does but there's a difference between that and being actively afraid in normal situations. How many men carry pepper spray, hold their keys clutched in their fist when walking to their cars just in case they need to stab someone, check the back seat before getting in their car, won't live in first floor apartments, hold their drink at social functions at all times so no one puts anything in it, makes sure they're dressed and/or made up in such a way that they're pretty or alluring but always ladylike because that's what is expected of them but not too pretty or alluring because they might look slutty and then God forbid some guy would try something? 

I learned about being viewed as a sexual object in the late 70's when I was 13 years old by my next door neighbor's 40-something father and his friend who made cat calls at me and talked about my nice rack because at 13 I was an early bloomer and (who knew?) I looked sexy in a t shirt and jeans. Next time it was a bunch of construction workers on Long Ave. in the middle of a sunny morning but I was the same age. Was that my fault? Was I in the wrong place? Was I asking for it? How about when I was in my teens and 20's fighting guys off like a tiger because they decided that my talking to them or having a drink (soda) with them meant I wanted to have sex with them? 

As I said before, I don't think the Kavanaugh/Ford situation was particularly relevant to his Supreme Court appointment but that doesn't mean I don't believe her. I do believe Dr. Ford. I believe Kavanaugh was drunk and got handsy and was probably too drunk or the situation too insignificant to him for him to have remembered it. Was it enough to disqualify him for the Supreme Court? I don't think so but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it doesn't change the fact that it made a huge impression on her just like my neighbors made a huge impression on me and 40+ years later I can still hear them and feel the shame I felt at their words.

So, just for the sake of argument, pretend Dr. Ford is your 15 year old daughter or niece or whatever and that happened to her. Let's even pretend that she kicked her attacker in the balls and punched him in the neck for good measure. How would you feel about that boy? Drunk or not. Normally good young man or not. Would you tell your daughter or niece that it was her own fault, that she shouldn't have been there, that she was asking for it?

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3 hours ago, conservativeman633 said:

……...maybe...………...perhaps way too many hold it in, instead of doing something about it...…………...it takes tons of courage

If you want the name you need to learn the game. If you want the role of delicate flower then create your own safety zone with those who want to protect you and don't venture into situations where you become the victim.  It makes it difficult for true victims. 

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3 hours ago, conservativeman633 said:

Thank goodness it is 'fashionable' now--------where common sense applies I agree, of course.    Those 99.9% of men do not have the dangers of assault/harassment that women do, not even close...

You obviously circulate in more refined circles than many a young man. Thee are all sorts of assault/harassment not the least of which is psychological.  

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8 hours ago, lavender said:

If you want the name you need to learn the game. If you want the role of delicate flower then create your own safety zone with those who want to protect you and don't venture into situations where you become the victim.  It makes it difficult for true victims. 

"true victims" ?????...……….whoa !

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50 minutes ago, conservativeman633 said:

"true victims" ?????...……….whoa !

There is a considerable difference between being raped with violence and being propositioned or whistled at. There also seem to be an increasing number of false accusations which take credence away from true accusations. You see things in black and white. Most things exist in shades of gray. There are few angels or demons. Mostly it is just people. 

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22 hours ago, lavender said:

There is a considerable difference between being raped with violence and being propositioned or whistled at. There also seem to be an increasing number of false accusations which take credence away from true accusations. You see things in black and white. Most things exist in shades of gray. There are few angels or demons. Mostly it is just people. 

maybe-------------but it might be that things like rape and sexual harassment are all on the same continuum...…….agree?

 

Speaking of "false accusations", judging how one can become president or a Supreme Court justice by being "falsely accused", I could use a little of that good fortune myself...……….in any case, in all my years I have not seen even one guy get in trouble this way, in fact,  as I just stated, it seems to help the men when it happens...!!…….and never the accuser.....

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No, I don't think it is a continuum. I don't suppose that the senior George Bush who seems to be a fanny patter is a danger to anyone nor do I think that those pesky construction workers are all serial rapists. 

You don't become a president or a Supreme Court justice by being "falsely accused" you become a president or a Supreme Court justice despite being accused whether falsely or otherwise. It is a reasoned judgment whether the accusations are true and whether they have any bearing on the job in question. Kavananagh, if that is to whom you are referring, was confirmed despite the accusations hopefully because there was absolutely no proof that he did anything. An accusation is not proof, neither is hearsay evidence. The only positive aspect of the outcome was his confirmation. His reputation is in shambles and his family is bearing the shame. As for his accuser, it is my understanding, that she is at least $700, 000 richer from gofundme pages and will no doubt be in much demand as an inspirational speaker. I'll bet her schedule is filled for 2019 already. Her financial future is secure. 

You probably have never known anyone who has gotten in trouble for sexual harassment because you don't know anyone who sexually harasses women. Could that be the logical explanation rather than all the men you know do so but none of the women have them arrested for it?  

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On 10/8/2018 at 10:30 PM, conservativeman633 said:

My best friend was sexually harassed, and the scar NEVER goes away...…...sorry.   Oh yeah, you can get on with life and succeed, but it scars...…...it scars EVERYONE.  Why do you think it took Dr. Ford so long to say anything??  Think she was weak-willed??   You'd be lucky to know someone with her courage.....

Um, I trust my daughter's statements over your opinions.  I know someone with greater courage.

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I think Dr. Ford took so long to come forward because it was the politically expedient moment. If she actually wanted Kavanaugh to be punished for his alleged  actions as a teen she would have, at the time,  told a cop not her girl friends. If you don't tell anyone in authority no one can do anything about it. I guess a smear campaign works better. 

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On 10/8/2018 at 10:33 PM, conservativeman633 said:

this is called "weaponizing victimization"...……...sounds like you and others are falling for it...……….just my opinion, but...……….compared to women, men have NOTHING to worry about......……...I would question any man who worries about this......

Obviously, you have neither sons nor daughters.  In today's environment, both need to be concerned with their actions...specifically how their actions will be construed/misconstrued by others.  In today's world, even the innocent action of  the 5yo preschooler boy stealing a kiss on the chesk of the cute 5yo girl is liable to get him branded as a potential future sexual predator.

False accusations occur all the time.  Ask the Duke Mens Lacrosse team from a few years ago.

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9 hours ago, lavender said:

I think Dr. Ford took so long to come forward because it was the politically expedient moment. If she actually wanted Kavanaugh to be punished for his alleged  actions as a teen she would have, at the time,  told a cop not her girl friends. If you don't tell anyone in authority no one can do anything about it. I guess a smear campaign works better. 

sexually assaulted victims do not fit that behavior pattern

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7 hours ago, Illiterate said:

Obviously, you have neither sons nor daughters.  In today's environment, both need to be concerned with their actions...specifically how their actions will be construed/misconstrued by others.  In today's world, even the innocent action of  the 5yo preschooler boy stealing a kiss on the chesk of the cute 5yo girl is liable to get him branded as a potential future sexual predator.

False accusations occur all the time.  Ask the Duke Mens Lacrosse team from a few years ago.

were they false ?

Maybe your family, ----not mine, nor my friends.    No offense intended, but obviously we live in very different cultures with our relationships.   Yes, we always need to be careful----common sense.

I have seen many men with little sense or instincts when it comes to this issue, so I'm not saying it is not out there...……...my daughters and granddaughters have much more to be concerned about, IMO

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23 minutes ago, conservativeman633 said:

sexually assaulted victims do not fit that behavior pattern

And you have proof positive that she was a sexual assault victim? Evidence that will stand up in a court of law and not your opinion of her veracity? And who says what an assault victim will do? Some are going to get furious and want to see their attacker hung by his ........well anyway.  What sense does it make to sit here and tell men they shouldn't sexually assault or harass women when women will not bring charges if they do? Rather than make useless demands on men the ball is in the other court. It is up to women to make it clear that there will be consequences for such behavior. 

28 minutes ago, conservativeman633 said:

I have seen many men with little sense or instincts when it comes to this issue, so I'm not saying it is not out there...……...my daughters and granddaughters have much more to be concerned about, IMO

So isn't this what I have been saying? It behooves a woman to avoid men who do not know what "n-o" means and avoid putting themselves in situations that they cannot control? Maybe women should be able to go where they want, act how they wish and dress however but they are foolish if they do unless they are physically capable of defending themselves. As a man who should have nothing to worry about do you want to walk in to a gathering of Hell's Angels dressed like RuPaul in his best evening gown?

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1 hour ago, lavender said:

And you have proof positive that she was a sexual assault victim? Evidence that will stand up in a court of law and not your opinion of her veracity? And who says what an assault victim will do? Some are going to get furious and want to see their attacker hung by his ........well anyway.  What sense does it make to sit here and tell men they shouldn't sexually assault or harass women when women will not bring charges if they do? Rather than make useless demands on men the ball is in the other court. It is up to women to make it clear that there will be consequences for such behavior. 

So isn't this what I have been saying? It behooves a woman to avoid men who do not know what "n-o" means and avoid putting themselves in situations that they cannot control? Maybe women should be able to go where they want, act how they wish and dress however but they are foolish if they do unless they are physically capable of defending themselves. As a man who should have nothing to worry about do you want to walk in to a gathering of Hell's Angels dressed like RuPaul in his best evening gown?

As stated-----------common sense, if possible.....

In a court of law Ms. Ford would have a tough go at it...………..but at a job interview it would be a no-brainer.   We had many other qualified candidates, but if they really wanted Ol' Brett in there that badly, then a very thorough investigation into the specific charge was warranted.  It was an insult to women everywhere, and it was not the first insult to women from this crew...….IMO

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I guess I don't understand why a person wouldn't open their mouth and tell someone that they were abused in any way. We've told our kids to tell us everything. I hear stories all of the time from them about their friends and what the talk of the day is at their schools. And we have even stepped up to the plate and alerted the proper authorities when needed. So I just don't get it.

If I was young again and someone did something to me, you better believe I would tell. 

Maybe some people were told not to tell in fear of being labeled as a taddle tail?

If I had sons, I would feel very worried for their future. Seeing that half of our country obviously believes in guilty until proven innocent,  anybody can now make anything up about you and it could screw you up for life. 

This happened close to here. Was this fair for this boy? Those five girls should be pulled out of that school and be homeschooled and not be allowed to participate in any school sport or function. 

https://www.wtae.com/article/lawsuit-accuses-mean-girls-of-falsely-accusing-seneca-valley-students-of-sexual-assault/23595668

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/five-high-school-mean-girls-targeted-boy-with-false-accusations-of-sexual-assault-lawsuit-claims

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2 hours ago, gopsu said:

I guess I don't understand why a person wouldn't open their mouth and tell someone that they were abused in any way. We've told our kids to tell us everything. I hear stories all of the time from them about their friends and what the talk of the day is at their schools. And we have even stepped up to the plate and alerted the proper authorities when needed. So I just don't get it.

If I was young again and someone did something to me, you better believe I would tell. 

Maybe some people were told not to tell in fear of being labeled as a taddle tail?

If I had sons, I would feel very worried for their future. Seeing that half of our country obviously believes in guilty until proven innocent,  anybody can now make anything up about you and it could screw you up for life. 

This happened close to here. Was this fair for this boy? Those five girls should be pulled out of that school and be homeschooled and not be allowed to participate in any school sport or function. 

https://www.wtae.com/article/lawsuit-accuses-mean-girls-of-falsely-accusing-seneca-valley-students-of-sexual-assault/23595668

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/five-high-school-mean-girls-targeted-boy-with-false-accusations-of-sexual-assault-lawsuit-claims

If you were abused you would understand...……….not your fault.     Be that as it may, I know much about this topic from all angles----------so take it from me, your assumptions are totally off...………...again, not your fault

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2 hours ago, conservativeman633 said:

If you were abused you would understand...……….not your fault.     Be that as it may, I know much about this topic from all angles----------so take it from me, your assumptions are totally off...………...again, not your fault

Hum? Perhaps due to the change in attitude that woman and society have undergone as to the subject of rape your assumptions are totally off. The stigma is gone. Virginity is no longer the selling point it used to be. Probably not your fault but why insist that others take your word for it? 

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13 hours ago, conservativeman633 said:

As stated-----------common sense, if possible.....

In a court of law Ms. Ford would have a tough go at it...………..but at a job interview it would be a no-brainer.   We had many other qualified candidates, but if they really wanted Ol' Brett in there that badly, then a very thorough investigation into the specific charge was warranted.  It was an insult to women everywhere, and it was not the first insult to women from this crew...….IMO

Common sense says a woman doesn't come forward more than 30 years after the fact with a tale of a assault just when a man is reaching the peak of his career for any good reason. She isn't even claiming rape. I'm sure she was traumatized but she should have learned a lesson as well. To those of us who use logic and common sense this comes across as revenge or politically motivated. What person of good sense lets an incident like this fester for all those years? I can see how a violent sexual assault might cause lifelong trauma but in Ms. Ford's own words, "he tried." He tried to get her clothes off. He mauled her. Not nice but doesn't rise to dizzying heights either. 

Prove it in a court of law or innocent until it has been so proven. That is the basis of our judicial system. Trial by public opinion is not. We also have a statute of limitation on just about everything but murder. As for job interviews we all know how companies hire. Whatever is to their advantage and they aren't taking any chances for lawsuits. If they can get away with it they still won't hire a woman if they want a man. That is an insult to all women not refusing to believe an allegation for which there is no proof just because it was brought by a woman. 

PS How about all those schools who keep passing off teaches who have inappropriate relationships with their students because they are afraid to take a stand? That seems to be a standard in hiring practices.  Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil unless it comes in through the back door or is to the company's advantage and they don't have to acknowledge it. 

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21 minutes ago, lavender said:

Hum? Perhaps due to the change in attitude that woman and society have undergone as to the subject of rape your assumptions are totally off. The stigma is gone. Virginity is no longer the selling point it used to be. Probably not your fault but why insist that others take your word for it? 

fair enough

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