Pepper seedlings yellowing?

[Lupara]

I'm seeing some leaf yellowlng and in some cases the plant dies off. Not watering much. A couple tsps. a day I would say. Lavender, Petee. Any advice appreciated.

 

[lavender]

Are you sure the water is getting to the roots? I would suggest that you give them a thorough watering rather than dribbling water on them. Those starter thingys that you germinated in are generally filled with peat moss that is very hard to wet once it has dried out. Peppers don't like wet feet but then again they don't like drying out either. Peat moss has a very low pH too. It is around 4.4. That would cause yellowing as well. I'd cut those bags open and at least give the plants some access to the soil in the pots. Even if it is a soilless mix it would better than what is probably in the bags. 

Peppers grow slowly and the roots don't penetrate those starter bags for a long time. The tomato roots grow much more quickly so perhaps that is why they are doing better. 

[lavender]

You are welcome. Let me know what is in those starter bags. I haven't used those in years but did find that they were difficult to water if not kept really wet. Some of the stuff at the back of the racks always gets overlooked. I plant too much every year. 

[Lupara]

 

2 hours ago, lavender said:

Are you sure the water is getting to the roots? I would suggest that you give them a thorough watering rather than dribbling water on them. Those starter thingys that you germinated in are generally filled with peat moss that is very hard to wet once it has dried out. Peppers don't like wet feet but then again they don't like drying out either. Peat moss has a very low pH too. It is around 4.4. That would cause yellowing as well. I'd cut those bags open and at least give the plants some access to the soil in the pots. Even if it is a soilless mix it would better than what is probably in the bags. 

Peppers grow slowly and the roots don't penetrate those starter bags for a long time. The tomato roots grow much more quickly so perhaps that is why they are doing better. 

OK will do. 

[Lupara]

2 hours ago, lavender said:

You are welcome. Let me know what is in those starter bags. I haven't used those in years but did find that they were difficult to water if not kept really wet. Some of the stuff at the back of the racks always gets overlooked. I plant too much every year. 

They were are all of 15+ yrs. old. Left over from my seed starting days gone by. Since I wanted to reproduce the orange tomato, I started back up. I remember they swelled with water right away. These, as you described, were like getting a brick to absorb water. I almost gave up. After more water and some time they finally swelled. I threw the bag away so I don't know what the material is. I did start the same pepper variety in seed starting medium surrounded by potting soil about ten days ago. They are just coming out now. I'll watch for any yellowing with this lot and report back. Thanks again.

[Petee]

The peat pellets were probably sterile but they have absolutely no nutrition in them, just peat.  If you used a potting soil in the paper pots then it would depend on which one you used.  Some of them have no nutrition at all and others are just a starting dose.

Peppers are very specific in what nutrients they want, they demand good drainage, and they like a warm temperature and lots of light.  I'll post an info sheet here for you just as soon as I find it.

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/propagation/seeds/seedlings-turning-yellow.htm

You have some excellent tomatoes going there!  I'm jealous!  Mine just went into the soil blocks tonight by lantern light as we had no electric for a couple of hours.  I was teaching my 11 year old granddaughter to make the blocks while I planted and we had a really good time. I do have a really nice germinating table which has seen a lot of use and success with seedlings.

We do the paper pots also but we do not put a bottom in them as it can block too much oxygen and water.  Another part of that problem is that if they are sitting in a smooth bottomed container, then the excess water really can't drain away. You also have to keep them a little drier than plastic pots because the newspaper holds water and if the pots are pressed tightly together, you will get the same effect.  Don't water till you see that the plant leaves are looking a little dull.  Then don't over do it.It's better to keep indoor starts drier than when they go outside.

I would pick up each pot and give it a tiny sideways squeeze to get oxygen channels back into the soil and then set it back in some sort of a container that will actually drain.  Don't over water and you won't have this problem, and don't water paper pots from the bottom for the same reason.  Once your soil seems to be breathing and draining better, then you might want to try an extremely weak high nitrogen fertilizer on them but be sure they are draining freely first.

 

[Lupara]

8 hours ago, Petee said:

The peat pellets were probably sterile but they have absolutely no nutrition in them, just peat.  If you used a potting soil in the paper pots then it would depend on which one you used.  Some of them have no nutrition at all and others are just a starting dose.

Peppers are very specific in what nutrients they want, they demand good drainage, and they like a warm temperature and lots of light.  I'll post an info sheet here for you just as soon as I find it.

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/propagation/seeds/seedlings-turning-yellow.htm

You have some excellent tomatoes going there!  I'm jealous!  Mine just went into the soil blocks tonight by lantern light as we had no electric for a couple of hours.  I was teaching my 11 year old granddaughter to make the blocks while I planted and we had a really good time. I do have a really nice germinating table which has seen a lot of use and success with seedlings.

We do the paper pots also but we do not put a bottom in them as it can block too much oxygen and water.  Another part of that problem is that if they are sitting in a smooth bottomed container, then the excess water really can't drain away. You also have to keep them a little drier than plastic pots because the newspaper holds water and if the pots are pressed tightly together, you will get the same effect.  Don't water till you see that the plant leaves are looking a little dull.  Then don't over do it.It's better to keep indoor starts drier than when they go outside.

I would pick up each pot and give it a tiny sideways squeeze to get oxygen channels back into the soil and then set it back in some sort of a container that will actually drain.  Don't over water and you won't have this problem, and don't water paper pots from the bottom for the same reason.  Once your soil seems to be breathing and draining better, then you might want to try an extremely weak high nitrogen fertilizer on them but be sure they are draining freely first.

 

Great advice as well. Thanks. 

[lavender]

So how are the peppers?

[Lupara]

5 hours ago, lavender said:

So how are the peppers?

I cut through the mesh of the pellet as suggested. After more that a week, maybe two there was little or no growth. I carefully lifted them up and peeled the mesh off. By then I believe it was too late. They remain stunted. I'm sure the problem was the pellets. I planted another lot of the same seed without the pellets about 20 days after starting these and they did fine. They're in the garden now. The medium  for those was potting soil with some seed starting mix at the top.

[lavender]

I think you are probably right about the pellets. I'm betting on the ph being too low. Peppers like a ph of 6-8. Too low a ph will cause yellowing. I found this:

"The pellets have a pH of approximately 5.3 and are wrapped in a thin, degradable net. Ideal for starting your seeds indoors! Just put a few seeds in each pellet and add water. The peat pellets expand into a self contained soil container held together thin netting."

I think pellets are ok for germinating but not for an extended period of time.

[Lupara]

52 minutes ago, lavender said:

I think you are probably right about the pellets. I'm betting on the ph being too low. Peppers like a ph of 6-8. Too low a ph will cause yellowing. I found this:

"The pellets have a pH of approximately 5.3 and are wrapped in a thin, degradable net. Ideal for starting your seeds indoors! Just put a few seeds in each pellet and add water. The peat pellets expand into a self contained soil container held together thin netting."

I think pellets are ok for germinating but not for an extended period of time.

OK thanks. Good to know. I've purchased my last pellets. The method I described above for the second run worked fine.

[Petee]

I raise thousands of seedlings every year and I've learned to just stick with Jiffy Mix.  I add my own starter fertilizer with a mineral mix right in the seedling mix and they grow great.  I do soil blocking, set them on a germinating table, transplant them early into a larger soil block (again with the same mineral mix and a greenhouse medium or ProMix) and then into a paper pot, again with the same mineral mix and ProMix.  Once they are in the greenhouse and have grown their second leaves, I feed the peppers with tomato food.  Then every couple of weeks, again with the tomato food till the end of the year.

[Lupara]

5 hours ago, Petee said:

I raise thousands of seedlings every year and I've learned to just stick with Jiffy Mix.  I add my own starter fertilizer with a mineral mix right in the seedling mix and they grow great.  I do soil blocking, set them on a germinating table, transplant them early into a larger soil block (again with the same mineral mix and a greenhouse medium or ProMix) and then into a paper pot, again with the same mineral mix and ProMix.  Once they are in the greenhouse and have grown their second leaves, I feed the peppers with tomato food.  Then every couple of weeks, again with the tomato food till the end of the year.

Soil blocking looks like the way to go for volume propagation. I'll start about 30 tomatoes  and peppers. The paper pots I used were about  2 1/2 " wide by 5 in. tall. Since it isn't many plants I don't know the advantage of blocking. I will look to improve the starting medium. You start the seeds directly in the Jiffy Mix or some type of seed starting mix? 

[Lupara]

One problem I had was when I hardened off the tomatoes I had some significant leaf burn from direct sunlight. I put them out in the morning in full sun on a sunny day. Brought them inside in the evening. After two days the burn showed up. Too much sun right away or lack of fertilizer? I can describe the plants as leggy. Tall. Some nearly 2' tall with smaller leaves if that was a factor. 

[Petee]

4 hours ago, Lupara said:

Soil blocking looks like the way to go for volume propagation. I'll start about 30 tomatoes  and peppers. The paper pots I used were about  2 1/2 " wide by 5 in. tall. Since it isn't many plants I don't know the advantage of blocking. I will look to improve the starting medium. You start the seeds directly in the Jiffy Mix or some type of seed starting mix? 

I make blocks about the size of the tip of my finger from Jiffy Mix and my mineral starter.  All of the small to medium sized seeds are started in them.  As soon as they have some roots, they are put into a greenhouse mix and transferred to the larger soil blocks (again Greenhouse Medium or ProMix) where they stay for 5-7 days will their roots are even more established.  Then they are dropped into a paper pot to grow to sale size.  At that time they are transferred to my small greenhouse into a shaded area.  I do not let them out into the sun for about a week or more so they gently get used to the higher sun area and do not get scalded by any daytime humidity or water drops.  It should be shaded or dappled light.  Peppers seem to be more sensitive to light exposure than tomatoes.  Right now mine have been out in the direct blasting sunlight with no problems just waiting for new homes.  Don't rush them.

Larger seeds such as Zucchini, Pumpkins, etc, go directly into paper pots with ProMix after a good overnight soak.  

Soil Blockers are expensive and it takes some practice to even make them work right. I only got it because of the number of plants I start for the BUDS Gardeners and the Master Gardeners.

Agway has huge bales of ProMix.  DuBois Feeds also has it.  It lasts forever as long as it doesn't get wet, so if you use even 3-4 bags of potting mix a year, it's cheaper than the small bags.  Just tape the bags shut for the winter to make sure no critters or micro-organisms get into it and you're set for years! I go through bales of it every year but always have some left in an opened bag.

Always save every egg shell possible, even if you have to ask the neighbors.  Dry them when you get a bunch and then microwave them for 1 minute.  They will be HOT!  I grind them into a powder with a spice grinder and usually have a huge jar of them by spring.  I also use Diatomaceous Earth, Bone Meal and Greensand.

When we set them out for sale, they have huge root systems but they are NEVER root bound..

Come and get 'em!

[lavender]

When I harden off my plants I do it in dappled sunlight. I'd never put them in hot sun until they go into the ground. Once they are hardened off they can go into direct sun. They go from my heated greenhouse into the large unheated one. I set them under the shelves so that the direct sun doesn't hit them. It gets really hot out there so they get accustomed to temperature changes.  From there they go to an elevated platform under a tree where they get used to less water and wind. You can see the stems getting less succulent. They are semi-shaded and up away from the deer. From there they go into the ground with a dose of weak Miracle-gro.

I used to just plant in Miracle-gro potting soil but one year it was contaminated with fungus gnats. Ruined most of my seedlings. Now I plant in a soilless mix. I plant in a number of different ways. Some seeds go into flats, some in mini-greenhouses and some in pots. I like to experiment. 

[Lupara]

Dappled it is from now on.

I put the second group of tomatoes under the deck umbrella for a few days with good result. When high winds were in the forecast Friday the umbrella went to half mast.

[Petee]

Have your peppers responded to anything yet?

 

[Lupara]

6 hours ago, Petee said:

Have your peppers responded to anything yet?

 

They've responded all right. To about everything the Bible could throw at them. First famine in starting them in a medium where roots couldn't grow enough for the plants to feed. The peat pelt lot didn't establish well at all. The second lot established ok then came the insects. In treating the pestilence I committed the sin of spraying them with a Dawn solution in the morning of a sunny day. All this happened  is in the upper garden. I planted some other pepper varieties in the lower garden that haven't been bothered by any insects.

[Petee]

Oh Heavens, hysterical!  That sound like a lot of my learning experiences and even some today!  

Next spring, contact me on the Jefferson County Master Gardener Garden Hot Line and I can walk you through a perfect landing in the pepper patch!  That's my job.  814-7361 (508)

[Lupara]

1 hour ago, Petee said:

Oh Heavens, hysterical!  That sound like a lot of my learning experiences and even some today!  

Next spring, contact me on the Jefferson County Master Gardener Garden Hot Line and I can walk you through a perfect landing in the pepper patch!  That's my job.  814-7361 (508)

OK great thanks

[lavender]

Cut off the bottoms of milk jugs and put them over your peppers when you first plant them. Leave the lids off. This gives them a fighting chance against insects until they get bigger. I do this with my eggplants if they are small and it saves them from being destroyed by flea beetles. New transplants have enough stress without having to deal with  being gnawed on by bugs.