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Everyone is entitled to their views, opinions, and vote. From what I have seen, most people who are diehard or longtime residents of the City or TWP are against it. They seem to be set in their way wi

Wonder what the stats are of people who grew up in DuBois but now live in Sandy (and vice versa).  Must be an outright scandal if a City dweller marries a Sandy dweller!!    Whatever Gotham Duboi

Sandy and DuBois are no different than thousands of other communities across the country.  Sandy does not have the lock on the definition of livability.   I have relatives that live in New England les

As a younger-resident of Sandy TWP who will retire here due to my current career, all I can say is, it is about time! I am so excited to see what the future holds for this area, if this goes through. I have nothing but faith that they will get the job done and push forward to better our area! 

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11 hours ago, conservativeman633 said:

If we had done it 50 years ago we would be better off now.  End of story.    Of course 'yes'...…….unless we don't care about the future citizens of the area.

I agree! Although I was not alive 50 years ago, I too believe this area would have grown to a point where it would currently have a stronger job growth and market and many more amenities. 

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A bunch of years ago, St. Mary's consolidated with whatever township.  I have noticed zero changes with St. Mary's from then to today.  How will a DuBois consolidation be different?

I'm curious to both sides vision/plan for this consolidation.  If either has selfish intentions, it will again fall flat.  They are only beginning the process and I'm sure we're a few years away from anything on this.

 

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This thread should probably be moved to the Debate/Political Forum.  There are a lot of sticky issues with this initiative:  firemen, police force and other consolidations and integrations; type of city government; elections; taxes; and municipal employment (status of/priority given to current employees and salaries for re-defined positions).  Even the name of the new municipality and Treasure Lake roads are likely to be issues of significant and heated discussion.

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If I recall the last time that the consolidation issue was put on the ballot that the majority of DuBois residents favored it but the majority of Sandy Twp residents opposed it - so it did not pass.  Given the almost complete loss of the DuBois Mall, given the still looming public water issue, given the planning of construction of a new Sandy Twp building, given the recent replacement of two of the Sandy Twp Supervisors, and, most importantly, given the "re-birth" of the Sandy Twp population, it will be interesting to see how the vote would turn out next time around if both municipalities were to recommend consolidation. :popcorn:

 

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6 minutes ago, DuBoiser said:

If I recall the last time that the consolidation issue was put on the ballot that the majority of DuBois residents favored it but the majority of Sandy Twp residents opposed it - so it did not pass.  Given the almost complete loss of the DuBois Mall, given the still looming public water issue, given the planning of construction of a new Sandy Twp building, given the recent replacement of two of the Sandy Twp Supervisors, and, most importantly, given the "re-birth" of the Sandy Twp population, it will be interesting to see how the vote would turn out next time around if both municipalities were to recommend consolidation. :popcorn:

 

So, you're saying, to quote Nancy Pelosi, "We need to pass bill in order to find out what's in it"?  The only reason Sandy Twp initiated this was to save them from financial destruction?  Oh boy...

 

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5 minutes ago, Basset3 said:

Interesting  perspective on the Barnesboro/Spangler consolidation that became Northern Cambria.

https://www.tribdem.com/news/we-were-promised-the-world-nearly-decades-after-consolidation-some/article_01c9f23a-fb68-11e8-8cd6-b7caf3d4726f.html

This is exactly what I foresee with DuBois/Sandy.  I'm hearing all of the same talking points/promises without a detailed plan to support.  I don't believe either side has the smarts to pull this promised utopia off.  A bunch of guys in golf shirts tucked into their jeans does not give me the impression of success.  I'm not against it, I'm just not convinced it will be a good thing. 

 

 

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  On 1/9/2020 at 8:33 AM, Jay said:

I hope enough time has passed that the old guard is out and that now both sides can actually sit down  without bias and discuss this intelligently.  There are many advantages  for BOTH entities.

Good Post. But the question is who is willing to give up some of their power and position? Is it going to be one sided? Do you think  The  current City Manager is willing to give up some power? Or didn't Sandy just hired a new Township manager who seems to be forward thinking.  Their is a lot of discussion on how this should be managed. Yes, consolidation may be an answer but a lot variables have to be answered.  

This is from the debate forum.

My thought is consolidation could take 2 years and Herm may want to retire by then!

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38 minutes ago, Cacao said:

This is exactly what I foresee with DuBois/Sandy.  I'm hearing all of the same talking points/promises without a detailed plan to support.  I don't believe either side has the smarts to pull this promised utopia off.  A bunch of guys in golf shirts tucked into their jeans does not give me the impression of success.  I'm not against it, I'm just not convinced it will be a good thing. 

 

 

it has everything to do with attitude...…….it will work if we WANT it to work.  Period.

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1 hour ago, Cacao said:

A bunch of years ago, St. Mary's consolidated with whatever township.  I have noticed zero changes with St. Mary's from then to today.  How will a DuBois consolidation be different?

I'm curious to both sides vision/plan for this consolidation.  If either has selfish intentions, it will again fall flat.  They are only beginning the process and I'm sure we're a few years away from anything on this.

 

The economic climate has changed since the St. Marys-Benzinger Township consolidation merger. I am waiting to her from some friends that lived there when it happened.

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19 minutes ago, conservativeman633 said:

it has everything to do with attitude...…….it will work if we WANT it to work.  Period.

I'll admit, that's a percentage of it.  I think the greater percentage will be in the details of the plan.  Short term plan and long term plan.  "Want" will only get you so far.  The plan will get you to the goal.  The goal and the plan have not yet been announced.  Only the "want" has.

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2 hours ago, Cacao said:

So, you're saying, to quote Nancy Pelosi, "We need to pass bill in order to find out what's in it"?  The only reason Sandy Twp initiated this was to save them from financial destruction?  Oh boy...

 

You got it exactly!!  No one knows what will happen after a Consolidation.  It's a pig in a poke at the very best. As a forever resident of Sandy Township, I have seen huge improvements on a steady peaceful basis that all residents can live with,  Will BIG GOVERNMENT make it better?  Of course it will!  Will they demand more taxes and make us pay for more "benefits"?  Of course they will. It will only cause problems that no one will be able to move back from by letting people live as they choose within normal guidelines.  Why mess with what doesn't need fixed, and with what could very well become a fiasco to some businesses and home owners.  Get out your dice, because that's as predictable as it will ever get.

If you bothered to watch the video and listen carefully, they are not initiating talks, they are responding in a defensive measure because DuBois has already stated they will be pushing this issue again this year.  In response, Sandy is doing their own private independent study to get ahead of the mess.  They are NOT looking for Consolidation, but are looking for truth and answers in order to decide which way to go.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cacao said:

I'll admit, that's a percentage of it.  I think the greater percentage will be in the details of the plan.  Short term plan and long term plan.  "Want" will only get you so far.  The plan will get you to the goal.  The goal and the plan have not yet been announced.  Only the "want" has.

agree--------but with a willingness and attitude to succeed, it will get done.  If the attitude is not there from the start, it is doomed....

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55 minutes ago, Petee said:

You got it exactly!!  No one knows what will happen after a Consolidation.  It's a pig in a poke at the very best. As a forever resident of Sandy Township, I have seen huge improvements on a steady peaceful basis that all residents can live with,  Will BIG GOVERNMENT make it better?  Of course it will!  Will they demand more taxes and make us pay for more "benefits"?  Of course they will. It will only cause problems that no one will be able to move back from by letting people live as they choose within normal guidelines.  Why mess with what doesn't need fixed, and with what could very well become a fiasco to some businesses and home owners.  Get out your dice, because that's as predictable as it will ever get.

If you bothered to watch the video and listen carefully, they are not initiating talks, they are responding in a defensive measure because DuBois has already stated they will be pushing this issue again this year.  In response, Sandy is doing their own private independent study to get ahead of the mess.  They are NOT looking for Consolidation, but are looking for truth and answers in order to decide which way to go.

 

 

attitude is the key, from both sides.   Do we want a better future for the generations ahead, or not?  Are we thinking selfishly, or not?

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4 hours ago, Guest Skeptic said:

This thread should probably be moved to the Debate/Political Forum.  There are a lot of sticky issues with this initiative:  firemen, police force and other consolidations and integrations; type of city government; elections; taxes; and municipal employment (status of/priority given to current employees and salaries for re-defined positions).  Even the name of the new municipality and Treasure Lake roads are likely to be issues of significant and heated discussion.

There is a thread in the debate forum. Police and Fire Dept. can work together. If we did consolidate they could actually spread out our departments to better serve the area. The City crew and Sandy crew could also share special equipment that might not be used daily but is needed. The Treasure Lake issue is of their own making. If they want help all they would need to do is remove their gates. This has been visited, they chose to stay as they are, it is their choice. There may be some adjustments to taxes and things like the different ordenances that would be more of a concern closer to town. Things that could be worked out. I really don't see it as a bad thing.

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There are pros and cons.   Even if they were to merge, it wont be sunshine and roses.  Odds are it will be no different at all, no improvements, no loss.

The only thing most likely to change is that there will be one whole less government to pay for.  But the new government would have to bring on new seats to offset some of the work.  Overall the folks of the combined Sandy Twp + DuBois would likely be less represented on average.

 

I'd be more concerned about property taxes.  If one is lower, they could face an increase to match the higher rate for uniformity.   It isn't likely that a higher rate would be dropped to be uniform with the lower rate.

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