Jump to content
GoDuBois.com

US Catholic Bishops discuss not serving Pro Abortion Catholics


Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, jaman said:

US Bishops are now discussing not serving Pro abortion catholics.   2 Bishops were on the morning news and both say it is a sin to support Abortion and take communion.  So I guess Pelosi and Biden and friends are committing a mortal sin supporting abortion. No surprise.

BUT BUT BUT, supporting abortions gets votes. A Liberal's number one priority is to get votes. Being a hypocrite is the Liberal norm. Never take a stand on anything. You might actually look like a responsible human being.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, lavender said:

Saints do not need the church sinners do. So the Catholic bishops in their infinite wisdom would choose to make the sinner feel unwelcome and welcome only the righteous? How Christian of them!

Your post is ignorant of the facts.  Even the saints were sinners.  It's not the Catholic bishops "choice", rather it's their duty.  The Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly states that murder (i.e. abortion, divorce, etc) is a mortal sin.  It also states that one cannot be in mortal sin and receive the eucharist.  Yes, all are sinners, but few are "mortal" sinners.  Finally, laws (church or state) should not have concern for ones "feelings" and I believe that's the #1 reason the world is how it is nowadays.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Cacao said:

Church clearly states that murder (i.e. abortion, divorce, etc) is a mortal sin.  It a

I'm not Catholic so this really gets to me. It's a mortal sin to get divorced so they would rather have you stay In a marriage and continue to be physically/mentally abused, cheated on, miserable etc? How is that right?? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Lyndsey33 said:

I'm not Catholic so this really gets to me. It's a mortal sin to get divorced so they would rather have you stay In a marriage and continue to be physically/mentally abused, cheated on, miserable etc? How is that right?? 

No, they would not rather you do that.  That's a great misconception.  There are steps of reconciliation that would put the couple in good standing with the church.  Annulment is the most popular option.  Honestly, for the right amount, you can get those done quickly.  The catechism outlines those what it takes.  Too busy to find it at the moment...that thing is as long as War and Peace!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cacao said:

Your post is ignorant of the facts.  Even the saints were sinners.  It's not the Catholic bishops "choice", rather it's their duty.  The Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly states that murder (i.e. abortion, divorce, etc) is a mortal sin.  It also states that one cannot be in mortal sin and receive the eucharist.  Yes, all are sinners, but few are "mortal" sinners.  Finally, laws (church or state) should not have concern for ones "feelings" and I believe that's the #1 reason the world is how it is nowadays.  

Thank you for quoting dogma. It is what all organizations spout to justify their less than righteous actions. Now use your own brain to think what a Christian church stands for. If you can't see how unchristian this is then you might go looking for that biblical mote. "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."  The word of the Lord.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cacao said:

No, they would not rather you do that.  That's a great misconception.  There are steps of reconciliation that would put the couple in good standing with the church.  Annulment is the most popular option.  Honestly, for the right amount, you can get those done quickly.  The catechism outlines those what it takes.  Too busy to find it at the moment...that thing is as long as War and Peace!

 

Stop! You are making me want to leave the Catholic church. For the right amount of money you can buy your way out of the possibility of mortal sin? Well, I guess I always knew that but leave me with a few illusions. Reality sucks!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lavender said:

Thank you for quoting dogma. It is what all organizations spout to justify their less than righteous actions. Now use your own brain to think what a Christian church stands for. If you can't see how unchristian this is then you might go looking for that biblical mote. "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."  The word of the Lord.

There's a bible quote that will support nearly every point of view.  None of what I stated is what I "think".  It's what the church IS.  The catechism is the Catholic church's constitution/bill of rights.  If you don't like it or agree with it, then don't.  Catholics are the first Christians and every Christian denomination comes from Catholicism, that's historical fact.  The catechism, if you read it you'll find, that every rule/law is supported by the biblical liturgy (the gospels). Nothing more Christian than that. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lavender said:

Stop! You are making me want to leave the Catholic church. For the right amount of money you can buy your way out of the possibility of mortal sin? Well, I guess I always knew that but leave me with a few illusions. Reality sucks!

It's reality for divorce.  It's not right, but it does happen.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, lavender said:

Stop! You are making me want to leave the Catholic church. For the right amount of money you can buy your way out of the possibility of mortal sin? Well, I guess I always knew that but leave me with a few illusions. Reality sucks!

A good friend got an annulment. The priest suggested a nice "offering".

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cacao said:

It's reality for divorce.  It's not right, but it does happen.  

And it is apparently becoming a reality that people will basically be denied a ritual that is at the heart of the church for what they think. God gave man free will who are the bishops to take it away from him? Murder is a mortal sin. Is supporting the death penalty a mortal sin as well? Abortion may be a mortal sin but is supporting it a mortal sin? Do any of us remember the days when a Catholic hospital would ask a husband would he prefer to see his wife or his child die or even better arbitrarily choose the life of the child over the life of the mother? I wish people would use sufficient logic to apply the rules evenly. If you can support the death penalty and still go to communion but be denied communion for supporting a person's right to their own thoughts on abortion then you are not thinking logically. I know that church dogma isn't necessarily logical........but still. There is only so much one can swallow without gagging. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cacao said:

There's a bible quote that will support nearly every point of view.  None of what I stated is what I "think".  It's what the church IS.  The catechism is the Catholic church's constitution/bill of rights.  If you don't like it or agree with it, then don't.  Catholics are the first Christians and every Christian denomination comes from Catholicism, that's historical fact.  The catechism, if you read it you'll find, that every rule/law is supported by the biblical liturgy (the gospels). Nothing more Christian than that. 

That is rather contradictory. If "every rule/law is supported by the biblical liturgy" but there is a "bible quote to support nearly every point of view" then it is all in the interpretation. Therefore it is all opinion. Should anyone be denied communion with God for opinion (not actions) either their own or that of the bishops? Only the pope is supposed to be infallible. No nuns, few priests and Catholics are spending Sunday morning fishing or going to that other church on the hill. Maybe if hypocrisy were made a mortal sin one could not be pronounced right with God for a price. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, lavender said:

And it is apparently becoming a reality that people will basically be denied a ritual that is at the heart of the church for what they think. God gave man free will who are the bishops to take it away from him? Murder is a mortal sin. Is supporting the death penalty a mortal sin as well? Abortion may be a mortal sin but is supporting it a mortal sin? Do any of us remember the days when a Catholic hospital would ask a husband would he prefer to see his wife or his child die or even better arbitrarily choose the life of the child over the life of the mother? I wish people would use sufficient logic to apply the rules evenly. If you can support the death penalty and still go to communion but be denied communion for supporting a person's right to their own thoughts on abortion then you are not thinking logically. I know that church dogma isn't necessarily logical........but still. There is only so much one can swallow without gagging. 

Well said.

Years ago a dear friend lost her mom in a tragic car accident.  The following week I attended mass with my husband (he's Catholic, I am not).  This friend was sitting a few pews in front of us with her husband. There was a beautiful sermon given by the priest about how the community had brought food to show love and support to the family that had lost their mom and how this was mirrored in Communion that is taken each time we worship.  The priest equated Communion as a way for Christ to show comfort to His followers the same way a grieving family is given food as comfort.  At any rate, as the congregation began to file forward to take Communion, I noticed my friend and her husband did not go up.  I mentioned it to my (Catholic) husband.  He commented "she was divorced and remarried and so she can't take Communion."    This instance has stuck with me over the years as a shining example of the Church moving away from the true teachings of Christ.   I don't for one second believe that Christ would have turned my friend away from Communion and yet those who preach in His name did just that.  

We've chosen to not raise our family in the Catholic Church, though we still attend mass from time to time.  Our main reason for choosing to raise our family in my church instead of my husband's,  was the simple fact that too many rules exist in the Catholic Church "just because" and can't be easily explained.  The questions your bring forth in your posts highlight this issue for me.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is always an acceptable out when it comes to religion.

To those that want to believe the rules are set in stone.

To those that pretend, the rules can change in a heartbeat.

Liberals who pretend to be religious for effect.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Mika
3 hours ago, Lyndsey33 said:

An annulment vs a divorce...either way the marriage is disolved. Im sorry but it makes absolutely no sense that one is ok and the other is not. 

Are the children of the annulled marriage still legitimate? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, MIM307 said:

Well said.

Years ago a dear friend lost her mom in a tragic car accident.  The following week I attended mass with my husband (he's Catholic, I am not).  This friend was sitting a few pews in front of us with her husband. There was a beautiful sermon given by the priest about how the community had brought food to show love and support to the family that had lost their mom and how this was mirrored in Communion that is taken each time we worship.  The priest equated Communion as a way for Christ to show comfort to His followers the same way a grieving family is given food as comfort.  At any rate, as the congregation began to file forward to take Communion, I noticed my friend and her husband did not go up.  I mentioned it to my (Catholic) husband.  He commented "she was divorced and remarried and so she can't take Communion."    This instance has stuck with me over the years as a shining example of the Church moving away from the true teachings of Christ.   I don't for one second believe that Christ would have turned my friend away from Communion and yet those who preach in His name did just that.  

We've chosen to not raise our family in the Catholic Church, though we still attend mass from time to time.  Our main reason for choosing to raise our family in my church instead of my husband's,  was the simple fact that too many rules exist in the Catholic Church "just because" and can't be easily explained.  The questions your bring forth in your posts highlight this issue for me.  

That is a sad tale and illustrates why so many people are leaving the church. Grandma might have had the kind of blind faith that allowed the church to dictate without reason. The days of he is a priest you must do as he says because he is anointed by God and can do no wrong are long gone. That little myth has been thoroughly exploded hasn't it? 

Here is my story. I was talking to a priest at a school dinner not so many years ago. He said something to the effect that they would check with the parishioners before something or other was done. Being a smart mouth my comment was "since when is the Catholic Church a democracy?" He looked at me and said, "It's not, we just like to make you think it is." An honest man if not a diplomatic one. Maybe I just surprised him into honesty. The concept of "church" is a good one and there are truly some dedicated priests out there. Somewhere in the hierarchy the ideals of Christianity have been corrupted. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." It is even truer in the church than in politics because they claim to speak for God. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guest Mika said:

Are the children of the annulled marriage still legitimate? 

My understanding is yes they are. Now try to wrap your mind around that concept. There was never a legitimate marriage by the church's reckoning but the children were born in wedlock again by the church's reckoning. Civil law doesn't care. If you say "I do" then you are married no matter how the marriage is dissolved it is still a marriage. The kids get to inherit. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, lavender said:

That is rather contradictory. If "every rule/law is supported by the biblical liturgy" but there is a "bible quote to support nearly every point of view" then it is all in the interpretation. Therefore it is all opinion. Should anyone be denied communion with God for opinion (not actions) either their own or that of the bishops? Only the pope is supposed to be infallible. No nuns, few priests and Catholics are spending Sunday morning fishing or going to that other church on the hill. Maybe if hypocrisy were made a mortal sin one could not be pronounced right with God for a price. 

Not sure what to tell you, but it's true that it's supported by biblical liturgy.  Read it for yourself. https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM  Everything is footnoted with a bible verse. 

 I'm not theologically trained and if you have more questions that you'd like answered about the Catholic church, I'd suggest contacting one of the local priests.  They'd be happy to discuss all of this with any of you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Lyndsey33 said:

An annulment vs a divorce...either way the marriage is disolved. Im sorry but it makes absolutely no sense that one is ok and the other is not. 

I think...maybe someone with better understanding can correct me...I think, annulment is the religious exercise within the faith and divorce is outside of the religion or the state/civil announcing separation.  Since a "divorce" is not recognized within the faith, it is considered adultery. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, MIM307 said:

Well said.

Years ago a dear friend lost her mom in a tragic car accident.  The following week I attended mass with my husband (he's Catholic, I am not).  This friend was sitting a few pews in front of us with her husband. There was a beautiful sermon given by the priest about how the community had brought food to show love and support to the family that had lost their mom and how this was mirrored in Communion that is taken each time we worship.  The priest equated Communion as a way for Christ to show comfort to His followers the same way a grieving family is given food as comfort.  At any rate, as the congregation began to file forward to take Communion, I noticed my friend and her husband did not go up.  I mentioned it to my (Catholic) husband.  He commented "she was divorced and remarried and so she can't take Communion."    This instance has stuck with me over the years as a shining example of the Church moving away from the true teachings of Christ.   I don't for one second believe that Christ would have turned my friend away from Communion and yet those who preach in His name did just that.  

We've chosen to not raise our family in the Catholic Church, though we still attend mass from time to time.  Our main reason for choosing to raise our family in my church instead of my husband's,  was the simple fact that too many rules exist in the Catholic Church "just because" and can't be easily explained.  The questions your bring forth in your posts highlight this issue for me.  

Taking a different point of view, maybe it's more of a discipline than anything.  Maybe it's a way to illustrate it's importance and the severity of ones actions?  More times than not, divorce harms a family.  It's a breakdown of the family and there is a correlation between the breakdown of the nuclear family and hardships America/the World is facing.  

There should be no "just because" because everything is here: https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM  However, one thing that is not, and it confuses me, are holy days.  Why is a day a "holy day" here, but not in the next diocese over?  Faith is a delicate thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Cacao said:

Taking a different point of view, maybe it's more of a discipline than anything.  Maybe it's a way to illustrate it's importance and the severity of ones actions?  More times than not, divorce harms a family.  It's a breakdown of the family and there is a correlation between the breakdown of the nuclear family and hardships America/the World is facing.  

There should be no "just because" because everything is here: https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM  However, one thing that is not, and it confuses me, are holy days.  Why is a day a "holy day" here, but not in the next diocese over?  Faith is a delicate thing.

In this case, divorce was a way to SAVE a family from an abusive, alcoholic father/husband.  My friend, and her children, are safer and happier in her second marriage.  Her 2nd husband adopted her sons.  Please don't tell me how divorce "harmed" her family.   I would think her church would support her in making a decision to save herself and children, not shun her from sacraments.  Nonetheless she has remained a practicing, faithful Catholic throughout all of this and I admire her faith.

Faith is a delicate thing.  Religion is not.  It is often my prayer that those who are so busy building up a religion don't lose sight of the faith that it is to be built upon.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...