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Sandy no on consolidation


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I can't think that anyone would not think that State College is thriving. They are building housing everywhere. We bought a place there and it wasn't outrageously expensive. Certainly, if you want a m

I am going to do all I can to rectify the no votes of the Supervisors. Only about 350 signatures are needed to get Consolidation on the ballot. Let the voters decide!!!!  

Who exactly is "they"?  Are you expecting the feudal lords of DuBois to swoop in, lay claim to all the the eye can see, and turn Sandy residents into peasants?   If you gathered 20 random pe

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4 hours ago, Petee said:

 

If you want to do something good, then go to the SBA in Clarion and start your own business.  Get the FACTS about what will work here and stop trying to change everyone else's lives.  If you want changes, then BE that change.  Don't ask for government money to have someone else accomplish it for you. 

Good suggestion

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15 hours ago, lavender said:

I can't think that anyone would not think that State College is thriving. They are building housing everywhere. We bought a place there and it wasn't outrageously expensive. Certainly, if you want a mansion it is going to be pricier than similar housing would be here. There are lots of professional level jobs and just remember that all of those intellectual types who don't know one end of a screwdriver from another need lots of somebodies to service their cars and fix their plumbing. Curiously, people are retiring to State College because of all of the available activities and they are bringing retirement income into the community.  We should be so lucky as to emulate State College.

State College has the university that brings people to the area. DuBois needs a similar draw. With more people working from home, if DuBois/Sandy gets their ducks in a row, as an entity they might just draw some of those people to the area. We could have an influx of people with well paid jobs bringing money into the area and using services provided by the rest of the residents. There has to be something here to draw them besides the ability to raise chickens in the backyard. 

Excellent post. There is a theoretic comparison in this arguement with State College.  You and petee have acknowledged it.

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Guest John

I talked to someone today that is going to run for Mayor of the City.  He told me that his one campaign promise will be to build a wall around the city to keep the township freeloaders out.  And the kicker...he is going to make the township pay for it.

He thought there would be enough idiots that would believe he would actually do it to get him elected.  I agreed.

I can't tell you who it was but I will say he had a pretty cool spray tan and some awesome hair.

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1 hour ago, Guest John said:

I talked to someone today that is going to run for Mayor of the City.  He told me that his one campaign promise will be to build a wall around the city to keep the township freeloaders out.  And the kicker...he is going to make the township pay for it.

He thought there would be enough idiots that would believe he would actually do it to get him elected.  I agreed.

I can't tell you who it was but I will say he had a pretty cool spray tan and some awesome hair.

He will fit in nicely. How does he feel about gun control?:patriot:

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He will fit in nicely. How does he feel about gun control?:patriot:

I was able to catch up with him this morning while he was playing a round of golf at the Comfort Suites Resort.  I asked him about gun control and his response was that there would be a minimum number of guns required per household.  When pressed on how many guns would be required he eventually was able to answer:

 

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Research the consolidation of Barnsboro and Spangler to form Northern Cambria.

To this day the folks in both towns say they were promised the world....and got very little of it.  If they had it to do over again....most of the people would vote against consolidation.

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Research the consolidation of Barnsboro and Spangler to form Northern Cambria.

To this day the folks in both towns say they were promised the world....and got very little of it.  If they had it to do over again....most of the people would vote against consolidation.

I don't have a problem with anyone who is against consolidation, even if their reasons for doing so are as illogical and misinformed as Peete's.  I just wish it was on the ballot so the people could decide and not four supervisors who clearly have their own agenda.

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56 minutes ago, Basset3 said:

Research the consolidation of Barnsboro and Spangler to form Northern Cambria.

To this day the folks in both towns say they were promised the world....and got very little of it.  If they had it to do over again....most of the people would vote against consolidation.

At least they had the chance to vote.

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8 hours ago, Basset3 said:

Research the consolidation of Barnsboro and Spangler to form Northern Cambria.

To this day the folks in both towns say they were promised the world....and got very little of it.  If they had it to do over again....most of the people would vote against consolidation.

How do you know they would vote no? Did you survey the current residents and the majority reported no, or is it just hearsay? 

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1 hour ago, DuB814 said:

How do you know they would vote no? Did you survey the current residents and the majority reported no, or is it just hearsay? 

 

They are most upset about mail delivery which would never be part of any Consolidation process.

The other problem was they were both ( Barnsboro and Spangler) depressed to begin with. 

https://www.tribdem.com/news/local_news/a-decade-after-consolidation-northern-cambria-residents-still-struggling-to-leave-barnesboro-8200-spangler-behind/article_876f13dc-c6fe-5452-8af9-49693136abd7.html

https://www.tribdem.com/news/we-were-promised-the-world-nearly-2-decades-after-consolidation-some-issues-still-haunt-northern/article_01c9f23a-fb68-11e8-8cd6-b7caf3d4726f.html

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9 hours ago, Guest John said:

I don't have a problem with anyone who is against consolidation, even if their reasons for doing so are as illogical and misinformed as Peete's.  I just wish it was on the ballot so the people could decide and not four supervisors who clearly have their own agenda.

You are clearly not aware that on this forum, you do NOT point fingers at other people.  You honestly state your own opinion on the discussion, not on that of others, and if you're going to inappropriately mention me, it's Petee, not Peete.

 

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18 minutes ago, jaman said:

Wasnt it on the Ballot 3 times before? How many times does it have to be on the ballot? I could see a middle of the night Philadelphia situation happening. Pennsylvania has been very schooled in this.

Going against the popular vote never works.  You can't make a majority pay for something that the minority steals.

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25 minutes ago, jaman said:

Wasnt it on the Ballot 3 times before? How many times does it have to be on the ballot? I could see a middle of the night Philadelphia situation happening. Pennsylvania has been very schooled in this.

Consolidation is placed on the ballot using guidelines from the state. 

A minimum number of signatures are needed to have it placed on the ballot.

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On 6/12/2021 at 9:53 AM, Petee said:

I've lived here for 73 years.  There is no grudge!!  There is only a healthy caution on the part of the supposedly backwoods township people who were regularly looked down on and taken advantage of through the years because the country residents are less demanding than a city person.  That's not true.  What we in the country demand is peace, quiet and freedom to live as we choose within the bounds of human patience.  Because we live in the country we expect dust, wild greenery, healthy animals roaming somewhat freely, and we know how to deal fairly with them.  Country people can cope with anything but intrusion.  Many of them do not have extra money and others are frugal with their living at any rate.  We do not have the option of jumping on a bus, getting a cab or walking easily to a job.  No sidewalks, lightly paved roads, much land for pollinators and healthy wild animals without getting into too much trouble.  Few, if any, nosy neighbors trying to organize your life into their model, getting up in the morning to peace and a morning crow or moo in the distance.  We aren't limited to driving to a park or a forest to find cool, lovely nature.  We're in it and we want to keep it that way.

No one runs our lives although there are limits just to keep the peace somewhat if the township supervisors find a problem and need some guidelines to solve the problems.  They live here and know what is needed to keep our area growing and a good place to live.  

Letting this process into the hands of a business entity intent on just making more big tax money isn't an option to anyone but city people who have moved to the country to have better living conditions.  They're sprinkled in huge houses all through Sandy Township.  If they support a consolidation, they're cutting off their own freedoms.  Look at the big housing sections around the edges of the city limits.  Why are they there if the living conditions in the city are so great?  Why not an apartment downtown or a cheaper house on a city street?  

There is greed and a control issue motivating this effort.  They want anything they can get from Sandy Township, but not to improve it, they want to use it for quick financial gain through government money.  Sandy Township can do that on their own.  They don't need the city to do it.  

This got started again because the Township had land on which to build a much needed larger township building, and somehow the city wanted in on it.  Then the ball got rolling again after it has been turned down numerous times.  

Sandy has begun to grow on its own.  It's a careful, planned growth that will impinge on no one.  DuBois needs to do the same without plans for fame and fortune at any cost, including the costs to the history (which is never heard) of Sandy Township, peaceful living and space for children and young people without destroying the lives of others, poor or rich.  The more developed areas will seep out from town slowly and in an easily digested pace, not an explosive tax-money fed beast which will only want more, and more, and more.

  

Gotham vs Mayberry.

Lived in the area for about 30 yrs and I am still not really sure of the boundary lines.

I live in Sandy and work in DuBois.  One area as far as I am concerned.

The Hatfields and McCoys feud only lasted about 30 years.

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2 minutes ago, Petee said:

Here's your map of what is DuBois and what is Sandy Township.  Now look at why they want the land.

 

 

 

Before anyone votes for a pig in a poke, someone needs to sit down and do some planning, on paper, dividing up the forest lands from the actual city, gated community, Century Farms, small family farms, subdivisions, recreational land, high value commercial land, reservoir lands, highway access, Country Club lands, highly populated areas, hospital lands, church lands, old and new  coal mining leased areas, Historic areas, etc.  There is such a diversity of areas that how could they all be taxed fairly.  I want to see some kind of plan, just like when you buy property.  Who buys or votes something in without knowing what they are getting into?  Once committed, then there would be no going back.

Where's the plan?

 

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8 minutes ago, Petee said:

Before anyone votes for a pig in a poke, someone needs to sit down and do some planning, on paper, dividing up the forest lands from the actual city, gated community, Century Farms, small family farms, subdivisions, recreational land, high value commercial land, reservoir lands, highway access, Country Club lands, highly populated areas, hospital lands, church lands, old and new  coal mining leased areas, Historic areas, etc.  There is such a diversity of areas that how could they all be taxed fairly.  I want to see some kind of plan, just like when you buy property.  Who buys or votes something in without knowing what they are getting into?  Once committed, then there would be no going back.

Where's the plan?

 

That's called zoning.   I'm taking a good guess out won't change that much... it will take decades for it to change.... nothing is going to happen overnight...... if you live in sandy maybe you shouldn't be involved with anything in DuBois if you hate the issue so much.  

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16 minutes ago, JimmyPete said:

That's called zoning.   I'm taking a good guess out won't change that much... it will take decades for it to change.... nothing is going to happen overnight...... if you live in sandy maybe you shouldn't be involved with anything in DuBois if you hate the issue so much.  

Agreed! Sandy TWP has low quality amenities, which is why they always use the City's amenities. Examples: pool, athletic fields, walkway, etc... If the tables were turned, I am sure Sandy TWP officials would try to find a way to make it so city residents can't use the amenities. They like segregation a little too much, UNLESS, it greatly benefits them. The worst part is, I live in the TWP, and I am so disgusted and ashamed of the people who represent me because their ideologies don't represent the majority. 

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40 minutes ago, Petee said:

Here's your map of what is DuBois and what is Sandy Township.  Now look at why they want the land.

 

 

 

If consolidation happens, I vote that we give you an acre of land and rename it Petee Township. You can plant your crops and herd your farm animals in your own municipality. We will just build our sky scrapers on the border of your municipality. 

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2 hours ago, Petee said:

 

Where's the plan?

 

Please read the report!

 

Pages 27 through 30 covers  the real estate taxes.

The post consolidation uniform millage rate and the additional service millages are less than currently levied in both the township and the city. The highest post consolidation rate of 17.60 mills for all services is less than the 2021 city rate by 5.9 mills and 0.65 mill for the township. For those sections of Sandy that do not have street lighting or hydrant services, the millage reduction will be 2.19 mills based on the 2021 township millage of 18.25.

 

Residents who have well water and/or on-lot septic systems will have a reduction in their real estate tax bills but will not have a change in their water and wastewater systems due to the consolidation.

https://sandytownship.net/media/files7/2/Final Report Sandy Dubois 03.31.21.pdf

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2 hours ago, JimmyPete said:

That's called zoning.   I'm taking a good guess out won't change that much... it will take decades for it to change.... nothing is going to happen overnight...... if you live in sandy maybe you shouldn't be involved with anything in DuBois if you hate the issue so much.  

Where city residents are  concerned about downtown and township residents are concerned about maintaining rural character, advisory planning districts can be created to provide residents a formal mechanism to be heard on proposals in their neighborhoods. A combined DuBois/Sandy municipality could create something similar. The new municipality also could maintain current zoning designations. ( Info from the consolidation study)

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