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hipower

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  1. AGREE
    hipower got a reaction from Gold Brick in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    I've worked in both union and non-union businesses and in union and non-union positions within them, and have had safety committees in every one of them.  I can't say a union environment today is universally better for employees with all of the laws and agencies involved and available to protect workers.  What I do see is people who fear for their jobs find comfort in expecting union protection to keep their jobs.  The other side of that is I see unions protecting employees who should not be working at the expense of better workers.  It's a two way street and I personally was better served working in a non-union position, where others may not have been.
  2. SAD
    hipower reacted to LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    A fixed sludge cap is what I hoped to see come out of this, but I'm afraid this is going to fade away. My last hope is something more serious coming out of the DEP investigation, but I'm not holding my breath
  3. LIKE
    hipower got a reaction from steelnut in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    Unless a way is found to stir up the media or the workers find a way to keep this moving I fear the whole thing will fade into obscurity.  That is extremely sad.
    From a media view, this isn't the hot headline of the day and we are in a very small market for them.  We aren't dealing with the first string players.  I'm not even sure those who report locally could be the "B" team.  If a motivated reporter could get immersed in this and make it national news it could be a career making story.  I don't see any indication of that happening currently.
    From the workers side they need to find a way to keep the media interested and investigating deeper and deeper.  That may require someone, or several someones, to put their jobs at risk.  Not an easy thing to do or expect someone else to do.
  4. LIKE
    hipower got a reaction from LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    Unless a way is found to stir up the media or the workers find a way to keep this moving I fear the whole thing will fade into obscurity.  That is extremely sad.
    From a media view, this isn't the hot headline of the day and we are in a very small market for them.  We aren't dealing with the first string players.  I'm not even sure those who report locally could be the "B" team.  If a motivated reporter could get immersed in this and make it national news it could be a career making story.  I don't see any indication of that happening currently.
    From the workers side they need to find a way to keep the media interested and investigating deeper and deeper.  That may require someone, or several someones, to put their jobs at risk.  Not an easy thing to do or expect someone else to do.
  5. LIKE
    hipower reacted to LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    I can tell you that the media that has been covering this has gone as far as they can with the information they have been given so far...
    They could be pointed in the right direction, but they couldn't report on anything until it was specifically mentioned in the OSHA report. What it will take to keep the media's eyes on it now is someone that was there, someone that knows what happened, and someone that can say what they saw with their own eyes. Second hand information from 1000 miles away only goes so far...
  6. LIKE
    hipower got a reaction from TucsonSunset in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    Supports my point.  Don't you think?  Matt Gabler represents Elk County and I don't recall any statements from him either.  If I'm wrong I apologize in advance for throwing Matt under the bus..
  7. AGREE
    hipower got a reaction from steelnut in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    Have you actually used these laws or are you just expressing your opinion?  I have been on both sides of labor-management issues and negotiations and seen these laws used more than once.  The results always favor the employee when the employee is acted against without additional proof of misconduct or some other allowable firing offense.  In those cases where the company prevails they have proven other causes that would have resulted in firing under a union shop also.  The only time these laws don't work for otherwise good employees is when they don't use them for their benefit.
  8. AGREE
    hipower got a reaction from BigT in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    Have you actually used these laws or are you just expressing your opinion?  I have been on both sides of labor-management issues and negotiations and seen these laws used more than once.  The results always favor the employee when the employee is acted against without additional proof of misconduct or some other allowable firing offense.  In those cases where the company prevails they have proven other causes that would have resulted in firing under a union shop also.  The only time these laws don't work for otherwise good employees is when they don't use them for their benefit.
  9. AGREE
    hipower got a reaction from LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    Have you actually used these laws or are you just expressing your opinion?  I have been on both sides of labor-management issues and negotiations and seen these laws used more than once.  The results always favor the employee when the employee is acted against without additional proof of misconduct or some other allowable firing offense.  In those cases where the company prevails they have proven other causes that would have resulted in firing under a union shop also.  The only time these laws don't work for otherwise good employees is when they don't use them for their benefit.
  10. LIKE
    hipower reacted to LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    That's exactly why I don't want this story to just disappear. It could well be that a union is what those guys need moving forward, but it doesn't help Mr. Pierce, and it doesn't help expose the cause of the collapse in the first place
  11. AGREE
    hipower got a reaction from steelnut in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    I understand and appreciate the concerns of the employees when they say they fear for their jobs and their livelihood.  What LFG posted above should address those concerns just as much as a union does or can.  Unfortunately the protection offered within those rules does not react as quickly as would a union presence on a job.  It takes at least two sides to make improvements and the old adage frequently comes to mind, It's not what you say it's how you say it.  Good working relationships are built over time and require solid communications from all involved.  I've never seen a business succeed, long term where management didn't listen to worker concerns.  That doesn't mean that the worker is always right, but management must allow workers a voice and at least respond where it is within reason.
    People's concern that the fine issued wasn't enough is valid on the surface and can't be discounted in the larger picture.  What many seem to be overlooking is the significant possibility of much larger settlements still on the table for the family of Mr. Pierce.  We may or may not know what those are based on the terms of any settlement.  Using a little experience as a guide I believe the settlement will be quite significant and paid by an insurer if the company has one or from the corporate treasury if they are self insured.
    My hope is like LFG's, that this will result in improvements in landfill operations across the country, not just a bump in the road for the industry to move past and continue to do what has become somewhat of a standard practice.
  12. LIKE
    hipower got a reaction from sapphire in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    I understand and appreciate the concerns of the employees when they say they fear for their jobs and their livelihood.  What LFG posted above should address those concerns just as much as a union does or can.  Unfortunately the protection offered within those rules does not react as quickly as would a union presence on a job.  It takes at least two sides to make improvements and the old adage frequently comes to mind, It's not what you say it's how you say it.  Good working relationships are built over time and require solid communications from all involved.  I've never seen a business succeed, long term where management didn't listen to worker concerns.  That doesn't mean that the worker is always right, but management must allow workers a voice and at least respond where it is within reason.
    People's concern that the fine issued wasn't enough is valid on the surface and can't be discounted in the larger picture.  What many seem to be overlooking is the significant possibility of much larger settlements still on the table for the family of Mr. Pierce.  We may or may not know what those are based on the terms of any settlement.  Using a little experience as a guide I believe the settlement will be quite significant and paid by an insurer if the company has one or from the corporate treasury if they are self insured.
    My hope is like LFG's, that this will result in improvements in landfill operations across the country, not just a bump in the road for the industry to move past and continue to do what has become somewhat of a standard practice.
  13. AGREE
    hipower got a reaction from BigT in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    I understand and appreciate the concerns of the employees when they say they fear for their jobs and their livelihood.  What LFG posted above should address those concerns just as much as a union does or can.  Unfortunately the protection offered within those rules does not react as quickly as would a union presence on a job.  It takes at least two sides to make improvements and the old adage frequently comes to mind, It's not what you say it's how you say it.  Good working relationships are built over time and require solid communications from all involved.  I've never seen a business succeed, long term where management didn't listen to worker concerns.  That doesn't mean that the worker is always right, but management must allow workers a voice and at least respond where it is within reason.
    People's concern that the fine issued wasn't enough is valid on the surface and can't be discounted in the larger picture.  What many seem to be overlooking is the significant possibility of much larger settlements still on the table for the family of Mr. Pierce.  We may or may not know what those are based on the terms of any settlement.  Using a little experience as a guide I believe the settlement will be quite significant and paid by an insurer if the company has one or from the corporate treasury if they are self insured.
    My hope is like LFG's, that this will result in improvements in landfill operations across the country, not just a bump in the road for the industry to move past and continue to do what has become somewhat of a standard practice.
  14. LIKE
    hipower got a reaction from LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    I understand and appreciate the concerns of the employees when they say they fear for their jobs and their livelihood.  What LFG posted above should address those concerns just as much as a union does or can.  Unfortunately the protection offered within those rules does not react as quickly as would a union presence on a job.  It takes at least two sides to make improvements and the old adage frequently comes to mind, It's not what you say it's how you say it.  Good working relationships are built over time and require solid communications from all involved.  I've never seen a business succeed, long term where management didn't listen to worker concerns.  That doesn't mean that the worker is always right, but management must allow workers a voice and at least respond where it is within reason.
    People's concern that the fine issued wasn't enough is valid on the surface and can't be discounted in the larger picture.  What many seem to be overlooking is the significant possibility of much larger settlements still on the table for the family of Mr. Pierce.  We may or may not know what those are based on the terms of any settlement.  Using a little experience as a guide I believe the settlement will be quite significant and paid by an insurer if the company has one or from the corporate treasury if they are self insured.
    My hope is like LFG's, that this will result in improvements in landfill operations across the country, not just a bump in the road for the industry to move past and continue to do what has become somewhat of a standard practice.
  15. AGREE
    hipower reacted to LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    That's assuming the employees knew how dangerous it was, or didn't want to go back up there. It is management's job to know what is happening in that landfill, and if the employees weren't afraid, then it wouldn't have come up in a union meeting. I understand what you are saying, but a union doesn't decide what happens in a landfill operationally. If that landfill were unionized and the employees went on strike, there would be operators brought in from other landfills, possibly from anywhere in the nation, to keep the operation running. You can't just close a landfill, it would impact every home and business within a 75 mile radius. There are contingency plans for a strike. The landfill has to operate
  16. AGREE
    hipower reacted to LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    Also, the federal government gives workers protection from retribution, retaliation, discrimination, etc..., and by law those rules have to be posted in a highly visible place available to all employees. You ever walk into a business and see a bulletin board up with a lot of legal looking posters and printouts on it? Look on the wall behind the drive through window at a fast food restaurant. Stop and read a few of them sometime, that's what that is. Those rules have numbers to call with complaints. There are options
  17. LIKE
    hipower reacted to LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    I don't want the core issue of this tragedy to become a union debate. A union wouldn't have prevented that collapse. I don't blame the collapse entirely on the owners of the landfill, it's an industry wide problem. There are certain materials that make a landfill unstable. Those materials bring in a lot of money. There are no rules set in stone on how much you can take, or how to integrate that material into a landfill. The onus isn't even completely on the landfill. The producers of that material could be forced to change the consistency of the material, which would also be very expensive. Many landfills are currently sliding to a certain degree. Greentree is the first implosion of an entire cell I have heard of, and things were done there that compounded the problem, but the root cause of that collapse is a festering problem that gets worse every year. As more municipalities push to recycle and compost normal municipal solid waste, less MSW is available to mix with the special wastes to stabilize them. That's fine, recycling and composting are good things, but when the makeup of a waste stream changes that dramatically, steps need to be taken to ensure the safety of the operators. I want Greentree to be a warning sign to the industry, not just the owners. These landfills are designed to hold this waste forever, we are still learning what happens at the bottom of a pile that is 200 feet tall and 30 years old, and the current waste stream is far different than what it was then. The entire industry needs to take a deep breath and look at what we are doing to the sustainability of our landfills. Greentree should be a watershed moment
  18. LIKE
    hipower reacted to BigT in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    At least 25 years ago when I think BFI owned the landfill I knew a few operators who wanted to unionize.  One of them even went to a nationwide company competition but that didn't stop them from being let go.  
    Rather than getting the Union to fight the individuals moved on to other jobs.
     
  19. AGREE
    hipower got a reaction from BigT in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    True, but even a waterfall started with a single drop of water.   In most cases eliminating one or two people swings the pendulum the other way.  I had a location where the work rules were costing significant dollars and during the negotiation of a new contract the union would not allow them to change.  After months of negotiation we made the decision to shut down a multi-million dollar facility and move the work to another existing site 40 miles away.  Same union, different local, and members who would work with management for the good of the business.
    The employees couldn't believe that their stubbornness could result in 30+ lost jobs, but it did.  Every employee there was making in excess of $60K annually and had a benefit package that was well beyond the industry standard.  Unions have good as well as bad, but they are not a cure all.  Good, flexible employees and responsive management make a far better working environment than adversarial  workplaces. 
  20. LIKE
    hipower got a reaction from steelnut in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    True, but even a waterfall started with a single drop of water.   In most cases eliminating one or two people swings the pendulum the other way.  I had a location where the work rules were costing significant dollars and during the negotiation of a new contract the union would not allow them to change.  After months of negotiation we made the decision to shut down a multi-million dollar facility and move the work to another existing site 40 miles away.  Same union, different local, and members who would work with management for the good of the business.
    The employees couldn't believe that their stubbornness could result in 30+ lost jobs, but it did.  Every employee there was making in excess of $60K annually and had a benefit package that was well beyond the industry standard.  Unions have good as well as bad, but they are not a cure all.  Good, flexible employees and responsive management make a far better working environment than adversarial  workplaces. 
  21. LIKE
    hipower got a reaction from steelnut in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    Supports my point.  Don't you think?  Matt Gabler represents Elk County and I don't recall any statements from him either.  If I'm wrong I apologize in advance for throwing Matt under the bus..
  22. LIKE
    hipower got a reaction from orphanne in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    Supports my point.  Don't you think?  Matt Gabler represents Elk County and I don't recall any statements from him either.  If I'm wrong I apologize in advance for throwing Matt under the bus..
  23. LIKE
    hipower got a reaction from LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    I've been on all sides of this, union, non-union, hourly employee and management.  I can assure you that if I wanted to get rid of a union employee there are ways to make that reality.  You rarely hear of the failures of a union to protect employees, only their successes.  There are plenty of good examples of both sides, but there is no absolute security blanket from paying union dues.
    In the case of the Greentree employees, I would suggest that should they want to push for change, they get their info assembled and their support lined up, then get this to the news media anonymously.  I say that since I have seen no evidence thus far that the government agency(s) responsible for effecting change are doing their jobs.  While everyone may be playing a waiting game there doesn't seem to be much activity from the political side either.   That makes me nervous as to the agenda of our elected officials.  That would start at the Fox Township supervisors and go through Elk County, Harrisburg and beyond.
  24. AGREE
    hipower got a reaction from BigT in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    I've worked in both union and non-union businesses and in union and non-union positions within them, and have had safety committees in every one of them.  I can't say a union environment today is universally better for employees with all of the laws and agencies involved and available to protect workers.  What I do see is people who fear for their jobs find comfort in expecting union protection to keep their jobs.  The other side of that is I see unions protecting employees who should not be working at the expense of better workers.  It's a two way street and I personally was better served working in a non-union position, where others may not have been.
  25. LIKE
    hipower reacted to LFG in Advanced Disposal Landfill Collapse   
    This is my fear of a union. I wouldn't want that as an operator, and I definitely don't want that as a manager. Typically when a union gets a foot in the door down here, that's where it starts. A disgruntled employee.
    That's why I run my landfill the way I do. My men respect me, and I respect them. I was an operator once, too, and I treat them the way I would want to be treated. I take ownership of my operation, and my men take ownership of their jobs. We don't want an outside group to be the mediator.
    I would imagine the operators there are the same way. If they are like a typical landfill, they have all been working there for years. I see much less turnover in the waste industry than I did in construction. Most operators I know at my landfill and others have been there 10+ years. Chances are the operators were there before the current owners were. That's why I don't understand the silence...
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