diagnosis help needed

[Guest snellma]

Ok, all you garden people, what is happening to my garden?  All my plants are starting to turn brown and I need to know what it is.  The first picture of the tomato is in a separate place away from the big garden but it appears to have the same thing.  Can anyone help?

[wildflowerpa]

From the pictures I saw on the internet it kinda looks like blight. If you google tomatoe or garden blight there are several sites to help. One days something about using an aspiran spray of some kind, I don't know for sure but everyone that has seen your pictures here say the same thing so I googled it

[Bon]

I think they are lacking nutrients. give them some epson salts.

[lavender]

The first one looks like damage done by a sucking insect although it could be a lot of things Sometines water left of the leaves when the sun is out will cause that kind of damage but in this case it appears to be too widespread.

The cucumber looks as though it has a condition called chlorosis where chlorophyll is not produced in the leaf tissue. It is usually caused by a lack of iron or the inability to absorb iron because the soil pH is too high. There are other causes but that is the common one.

I'd say they were definitely two different problems.

[Guest snellma]

The first one looks like damage done by a sucking insect although it could be a lot of things Sometines water left of the leaves when the sun is out will cause that kind of damage but in this case it appears to be too widespread.

The cucumber looks as though it has a condition called chlorosis where chlorophyll is not produced in the leaf tissue. It is usually caused by a lack of iron or the inability to absorb iron because the soil pH is too high. There are other causes but that is the common one.

I'd say they were definitely two different problems.

Anything I can do for either/both?  Those specific tomatoes are in a box beside my deck.  I have done nothing different to the soil from last year and my tomatoes were fine.

 

Everything else is in the big garden.  The only difference this year in the garden is that we didn't use an all purpose fertilizer this year when we tilled.  We always dump our ashes from our wood burner on our garden but this year we had an over abundance of ash.  Could that be doing it?

 

Would it help if I got some miracle grow fertiziler spikes and stick one beside each plant?

[lavender]

Wood ashes could indeed raise the pH to the extent that the plants couldn't use iron. We don't have a problem with dumping it in this area because the soil is so acidic. What the usual pH of the soil is in your area I do not know. If this is the problem adding iron or fertilizers will not help. You have to lower soil pH. This is usually done by adding sulfur or aluminum sulfate, not something that I would try without a soil test. If it is lack of iron and not a pH problem a fertilizer with iron in it would solve everything.

 

On a short term basis or on just a few plants as an experiment you could try a couple of things. Get some Miracid that is used to fertilize evergreens. Mix it up and try it on some of the plants. Common household vinegar mixed in water will also lower soil pH around a plant. This might be enough to set things right if the soil pH isn't too high. Weather conditions might also be a factor. Had much rain lately? Lack of rain can mess with the soil chemistry.

 

The tomatoes are harder since it is really hard to get an overall picture from one or two leaves. How widespread is the condition? Have you seen any insects? While it looks like the damage done by insects sucking the juices from the plant it could be, as someone said, a disease. If I'm right you could try spraying or dusting with an insecticide. If it is a disease you will have to get it properly diagnosed before you can treat it. If it is something brought about by weather conditions it will fix itself.

 

You probably need to consult your county extension agent, a knowledgeable nursery person or a local farmer. A soil test would tell you for sure what is going on.

[jettavwdrvr]

Snellma...I use the Clemson Extension information, even though I am a Gamecock fan!  

 

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/index.html

 

I'm not familiar with any Extension services in your area.

[Guest snellma]

Thanks lavendar.  I knew I could count on you.  I will try to take some other pictures of the tomatoes and see how they turn out.  We have had a huge amount of rain in the past two weeks so I guess that could be a factor.

 

Jetta - we actually have a Clemson office right here in Summerville.  I will probably take them a soil sample and see what they thing.

[Petee]

You can also go to a larger gardening place and pick up an instrument with a probe that you insert into the soil to test the PH of any location. I thinkmine was somewhere between $10 to $20 but you can use it forever.

[Guest snellma]

Thanks everyone.  I think it might just have been the rain because my neighbor's new little garden looks just the same.  They just built a raised bed and got fresh top soil and everything looks exactly the same as mine.  I'll keep you posted.

[lavender]

I'm wondering if you are not seeing the effects of acid raid. When sulfur dioxide combines with water it forms sulfuric and sulfurous acids which can be toxic in very small doses. One of the effects is chlorlosis like in the cucumbers. Higher doses will also burn the leaves. Perhaps the tomatoes are more susceptible and the acid rain has actually burned the leaves.

[Petee]

Since you do a lot of gardening, is it in the same spot?  Do you compost?  Maybe the soil is wearing thin on the nutrients needed to keep the plants healthier?

[Guest snellma]

Since you do a lot of gardening, is it in the same spot?  Do you compost?  Maybe the soil is wearing thin on the nutrients needed to keep the plants healthier?

Yes, my garden is in the same spot but I fertilize every year and I rotate what gets planted each year..

[Petee]

Composted materials give structure back to the soil that fertilizer can't.  Sometimes diseases occur because the soil may be fertile but the its composition may have changed.  Nothing but compost puts it back.  Some of the leaf damage could be bugs but some of it looks like disease or physical damage.

 

You're such a wonderful gardener that I'm sure you give the soil a run for the money.  A soil test may be in order.  The soil in my garden is happily laying waste!  I should talk! :-)

[lavender]

I was just going to email this to you snellma but maybe others would be interested as well. I got interested so I did some research. It gets a little bit complicated and is aimed at something other than garden plants but plant chemistry is plant chemistry. The full article is at

www.cmg.colostate.edu/gardennotes/223.pdf

First of all I take back the thought that you have two different problems here according to the article chlorosis can also manifest itself as dry patches on the leaves, something I wasn't aware of. Here is what the Colo. Extension Service says:

 

"Iron chlorosis refers to a yellowing caused by an iron deficiency in the leaf

tissues. The primary symptoms of iron deficiency include interveinal chlorosis,

i.e., a general yellowing of leaves with veins remaining green. In severe cases,

leaves may become pale yellow or whitish, but veins retain a greenish cast.

Angular shaped brown spots may develop between veins and leaf margins may

scorch (brown along the edge)."

 

You said that you had a lot of rain. One of the causes of chlorosis is excessive watering. Again from the article:

 

"Iron chlorosis is a common generic symptom of over-watering.

Overly wet or dry soils predispose plants to iron chlorosis. Iron chlorosis is more

prevalent following wet springs, and where gardeners over-water in the spring."

 

Secondly I see you use a plastic mulch. That can contribute to the inibility of a plant to take up minerals in two ways. One is the soil gets compacted under the mulch.

 

"Soil compaction and other conditions that limit soil air infiltration (like surface

crusting and use of plastic mulch) predispose plants to iron chlorosis by limiting

effective rooting depth. These are key contributing factors in clayey soils. Using

organic mulch (like wood or bark chips) helps prevent and reduce soil compaction."

 

Plastic mulch also heats up the soil and that can result in problems with mineral uptake and utilization.

 

"Soil temperature and light intensity

[Guest snellma]

Are you referring to my black weed mat as mulch?  I use it every year and have never had this problem.  My neighbor does not use it and she has the same problem.  I may check the soil but in the meantime I am just going to ride it out and see what happens.  This has been a very odd year for our weather.  We have had exceptionly cooler weather than usual and much more rain than usual (and it rained all day today).  It is supposed to warm up again so I will see what happens.

 

I will definitely add some kind of fertilizer to the garden this year after it is done.  I have gotten to know a lot of people with horses so I may get a good batch of manure.  That is what I used on my garden every year back home and it was wonderful.  I have been trying to talk my husband into building me a composter so I will keep working on him.  Too bad I wasn't able to get one of those free ones from the meetings you all had.

[Petee]

I probably have an extra one if you let me know when you are coming to DuBois.  I always take mine although I have a huge cement block compost bin and then I give it with the info to someone who couldn't make the meeting.  It's about the size of a dryer drum when disassembled.

[lavender]

Yes, I thought it was a plastic mulch but anything black laid on the soil will heat it up.  Since your neighbor also has the problem I wouldn't think that anything you have done or not done is the cause of the problem, especially if you use different gardening techniques.

I suspect that weather conditions have conspired to make soil nutrients, mainly iron unavailable, to the plants. Too much water keeps root hairs from functioning properly and the plant doesn't get oxygen and minerals, although I don't suppose your ground is that wet. Even main roots won't develop well in cool wet soil.

I think you are wise not to take dramatic steps. Since it is not just your yard it almost has to be the weather. No disease that I know of looks like those cucumbers and it would be an unusual disease that would effect plants of different families such as you are seeing. Bean viruses and bacteria effect beans, ditto tomato and cucumber pathogens.

[Guest snellma]

I probably have an extra one if you let me know when you are coming to DuBois.  I always take mine although I have a huge cement block compost bin and then I give it with the info to someone who couldn't make the meeting.  It's about the size of a dryer drum when disassembled.

That would be great Petee.  I would certainly appreciate it more than you will ever know.  We should be arriving in DuBois the afternoon of July 3rd and will be leaving the morning of the 8th.  I would be more than happy to meet you somewhere or come to your house to pick it up if you do have one.  Just let me know and we can make arrangements closer to that time.

[Petee]

Live about 3 miles from the Mall, so just give me a call as I am not gettin gto the computer as much.  814-371-3322

[Guest snellma]

Live about 3 miles from the Mall, so just give me a call as I am not gettin gto the computer as much.  814-371-3322

Thanks.  Here is my cell phone number also.  843-530-0920